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A dipshit doing his dipshit things
Lol, nothing really changes in some people, I remember in 2019 I had Onion removed from the Once tag list-I'm sad to see he's back on it. Same for Lisssaaa or w/e her fucking name is.
I mean they just like to ignore that Twice leads in sales, digitals, touring, etc and the fact that they are only talking about BP's upcoming album selling anywhere near Twice level due to almost a year of ebegging.
Imagine wiping out the 350k donated albums and we're talking about 300-400 thousand copies...surely the most popular group ever could get more than than without resorting to long term money collection lmao.
I mean they just like to ignore that Twice leads in sales, digitals, touring, etc and the fact that they are only talking about BP's upcoming album selling anywhere near Twice level due to almost a year of ebegging.
Imagine wiping out the 350k donated albums and we're talking about 300-400 thousand copies...surely the most popular group ever could get more than than without resorting to long term money collection lmao.
Dreamer95
StanRegarding that bitch, I already talked on discord, so I am just gonna copy paste it here
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Not chart related, but feels appropriate for this thread currently. JYP gave an interview, I believe by phone, with Jeff Benjamin for Forbes. Touches on some issues. It's an okay read but plays out more like a damage control puff piece than a company genuinely reflecting on why so so many of their groups fan bases are so unhappy currently.
Interview on Forbes.
He talks some stuff about his upcoming book, bla bla bla onto his faith and formative years in the company briefly and then gets onto some interesting stuff.
Talking about fan complaints...
"We definitely take the [complaints from fans] seriously, but sometimes it's really painful for us when we cannot explain why something happened, If we did something wrong on the business-side, we'll just apologize. We never try to hide ourselves out of a problem, that's not us. Some labels do hear certain accusations and just move on, but we don't do that. But when we do that is when it was not our fault: sometimes we can't share the reasons because we are trying to protect the artists or maybe it's somebody's fault that we can't mention like a partner. But this is how I approach it: We will reveal it after a certain period of time. We think about how much we love, how much we care for someone like GOT7, at the end of the day there can be misunderstandings in the short term. But in the long term, only the truth comes to light. I think a lot of people are frustrated—and lots of time there are reasons to be frustrated—but if you saw JYP 2.0 video clip, I was trying to build a system that's organic and flexible enough to withstand any variable."
High key feel like the bolded part is a reference to things like the situation with Naive, while not necessarily a partner that's only an example, they are also strongly affiliated in the company and both have monetary interest in each other so it makes sense why no official word has been put out about the future of Twice and Naive after they let Twice go under the wheels of several buses for them. That feels like he's trying to tell fans not all situations can be spoken on in public/media.
He doesn't really touch on groups more specifically than that but also talks about the future plans of the company and hints at another survival based girl group shows like SIXTEEN or Nizi Project for a potential US girl group.
Throughout the interview it's really just him hammering home the point of the companies high standard for idols of strong character, his personal development, some excuse making and future plans. It doesn't really fill me with confidence for his current groups since his attitude comes off as 'oh if we fuck up a group we can just move on and learn for the future'...
Really reading this actually just lowered my opinion on the company, the man and the future plans leaning away from current groups and into newer groups makes me question how much they care, if at all, about things that Once are saying currently...after all Ahgases have been doing the same thing for 2-3 years without any result or change.
Interview on Forbes.
He talks some stuff about his upcoming book, bla bla bla onto his faith and formative years in the company briefly and then gets onto some interesting stuff.
Talking about fan complaints...
"We definitely take the [complaints from fans] seriously, but sometimes it's really painful for us when we cannot explain why something happened, If we did something wrong on the business-side, we'll just apologize. We never try to hide ourselves out of a problem, that's not us. Some labels do hear certain accusations and just move on, but we don't do that. But when we do that is when it was not our fault: sometimes we can't share the reasons because we are trying to protect the artists or maybe it's somebody's fault that we can't mention like a partner. But this is how I approach it: We will reveal it after a certain period of time. We think about how much we love, how much we care for someone like GOT7, at the end of the day there can be misunderstandings in the short term. But in the long term, only the truth comes to light. I think a lot of people are frustrated—and lots of time there are reasons to be frustrated—but if you saw JYP 2.0 video clip, I was trying to build a system that's organic and flexible enough to withstand any variable."
High key feel like the bolded part is a reference to things like the situation with Naive, while not necessarily a partner that's only an example, they are also strongly affiliated in the company and both have monetary interest in each other so it makes sense why no official word has been put out about the future of Twice and Naive after they let Twice go under the wheels of several buses for them. That feels like he's trying to tell fans not all situations can be spoken on in public/media.
He doesn't really touch on groups more specifically than that but also talks about the future plans of the company and hints at another survival based girl group shows like SIXTEEN or Nizi Project for a potential US girl group.
Throughout the interview it's really just him hammering home the point of the companies high standard for idols of strong character, his personal development, some excuse making and future plans. It doesn't really fill me with confidence for his current groups since his attitude comes off as 'oh if we fuck up a group we can just move on and learn for the future'...
Really reading this actually just lowered my opinion on the company, the man and the future plans leaning away from current groups and into newer groups makes me question how much they care, if at all, about things that Once are saying currently...after all Ahgases have been doing the same thing for 2-3 years without any result or change.
colorpop
StanHe may easily "reveal the truth" by shifting away from NAIVE, but they are still working just fine so I guess that's not the case. Sounds like a usual investors meeting speech about "values", "perspectives" etc.
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Yeah it reads like 'we hear your complaints but our hands are tied' and the fact that they still work with Naive tells us quite clearly they don't really care what happened in june and really couldn't give a shit as to the damage it did to Twice's image.
Really sad, I hope JYP realizes how crucial this comeback is for a lot of Once.
colorpop
StanI think they actually believe that TWICE success can be easily recreated, that they found magic formula. That's why I think this third new gg for american market can be real.
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If JYPE actually think that they truly are in danger.
If they discard Twice in the hopes of having a bigger better version than they surely have gone off with the fairies.
Dreamer95
Stan@TWICE•MOMO that's a total bullshit. Absolutely not buying it. In fact if he is really trying to blame Naive I'd stand up for Naive. They made some best MVs out there. They made LOA, Cheer Up, Likey. They clearly can do very well given enough resources. No one can give you a good green screen MV except Hollywood companies. For a good MV Korean company needs real sets. Watch all YG MV makings. BigBang MVs like Monster, it is all made with practical effects. I don't know how passionate are you about movies but if you go to any movies forum, subreddit, these practical vs cgi discussions are always discussed. And it is a common knowledge that practical effects cost much more than cgi.
Dreamer95
StanI think the whole demand to fire Naive is bullshit and comes down to Kpop fans not knowing a shit about film making. JYP will just hire another company, give them same resources and outcomes will be exact same as Naive. Firing Naive will have zero effect.
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I went to college for Media Production and Journalism. I'm hugely passionate about movies and general video production. I'v always maintained a great MV can be created on a shoe string budget, all the same a garbage MV can be made on a massive budget. Naive were once a quality company with ideas and passion and we had top drawer MV's like BDZ, WiL?, Likey, etc but they are all far in the past these days and we have pretty trash music videos now like More & More, Fancy, Breakthrough and Happy Happy. Granted FanFare was a glimmer of hope i my opinion.
However the defending of Naive Media Production is something I can't tolerate following their conduct in June. When Twice were called plagiarizers in the media, multiple articles btw in Korea and international ones too, JYP put out a statement talking about taking care of it and working to sort it out...but like 2 days after Kim Young Jo comes out and takes 0 responsibility for it and denies it's theft of the guys idea leading to the artist coming out again in the media and blaming Twice for it.
If you remember the direct qoute ran with in a bunch of media outlets was something like 'Best selling girl group TWICE steals design for their music video'
Dreamer95
StanYou can say how expensive BDZ was by just looking at amount of actors. Paying that many people. It is definitely a budget issue first of all and Naive's fault the second. Yes, you can make good MV with little budget but I guess Naive doesn't have such experience?
Dreamer95
StanMISA RETWEETED ASDFGHHJKL
Dreamer95
StanDaamn, it is photos from google assdfgkj
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That's an easy assumption to make, there's a problem so rather than truly take care of it, in this case address the issues with Naive, it's better to throw money at it and hope that sorts it out? No I dont't think that's a proper solution.
I mean do people really think More & More is a cheap video? They have green screen, CGI, filming on location(with set construction and transport to location), bespoke hand crafted set dressing from an artist for the flowers and plants, built a large statue and suspended it on a stage in the middle of a lake in Jeju...none of this is cheap.
Compare that to What is Love? A couple of sets, no location filming and 90% green screen...yet one is a much loved MV and the other is garbage that got Twice dragged. Both MV's are by the exact same production company and both likely have vastly different budgets.
So yes it's more than just a money issue.
colorpop
StanThe problem with creative team behind TWICE MVs (wether it's NAIVE or DIV3) is clear lack of fresh ideas.
I could easily explain what early TWICE MVs were about, like, the idea behind: CU with that cool camera filters idea, Signal with alien and superpowers, LOA with zombies, hell, even Hearshaker had at least 18 TWICE girls on the set gimmick). But now it's just girls looking good in front of some changing sets. Everyone doing that and in order for those MVs to be outstanding you need to make it more expensive than what competitors are offering.
I could easily explain what early TWICE MVs were about, like, the idea behind: CU with that cool camera filters idea, Signal with alien and superpowers, LOA with zombies, hell, even Hearshaker had at least 18 TWICE girls on the set gimmick). But now it's just girls looking good in front of some changing sets. Everyone doing that and in order for those MVs to be outstanding you need to make it more expensive than what competitors are offering.
Dreamer95
StanThis is what I am talking about. I mean come on, even Naive can hold camera right and film this. Everything real in this MV, no green screen. If yall think this can be made with Twice budget yall are kidding yourselves
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It's not just a question of budget tho. You also need to take into account the equipment and expertise a studio has to work on certain things and to create certain sets. You also need to question the expertise and ability of that director/studio in producing a scene like the one you linked in the Tweet. Everything from a technical standpoint tells us Studio Naive and Kim Young Jo they have 0 ability to create an MV like Kill This Love or to set up complicated scenes with pyrotechnics, explosions, moving set pieces, etc the closest thing to something like that is the scene of them knocking through the wall in BDZ which is a significantly easier shot and requires 0 specialist equipment.
for a video like Kill this Love, even if you gave Naive the same budget they would still produce a much lower ambition and quality video. With Naive it's all static cams, box sets, green screen and beauty shots the rest is out of their expertise. Not Shy is probably the biggest production they've had in the last few years and was clearly made on a decent budget too and the video is still largely a pile of shit.
Comparing that to Seo Hyun Seung's work is chalk and cheese, it's a question of talent. I'm afraid we need not just a larger budget but also fresh eyes and new talent on the next videos or all we're gonna get is the same trash.
i mean the idea of more premium MV to Naive is lens flare and gold glitter like Feel Special. Pass.
colorpop
StanYeah, NAIVE clearly ran out of ideas, but I disagree that they completely lack skills for working with sets\equipment and overall doing great MVs. For example they built absolutely insane "forest" set with that cabin for Signal MV, which required way more efforts than anything in KTL. And Signal was filled with interesting sets along with Jeju outdoor filming and decent computer effects (well, except for the final "alien transformation" part lol).
And let's not forget that the whole "active camera movemnts to emphasize certain choreo parts" trend was started by NAIVE back in a days if we are talking about equipment handling.
Maybe non-stop MV production completely worn their creativity down or they were directly following DIV3 instructions and we are blaming wrong people? Anyway, maybe it will be better for both sides to take a break from each other and recharge.
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The set construction is fine, but at the end of the day it's just another set that was utilized mostly for box set choreo shot, which is all too typical of their style. Same for the camera movements, it's the kind of thing that looks fun and cool for a while and gives Mv's something of a signature look, but really it amounts to a few zooms and the odd tilt. I think both of those points just add to the idea of Naive not being burned out, but rather their 'tricks' and 'gimmicks' getting old. those looked cool in 2017, but here we are in 2020 seeing essentially the same thing right? Forest/nature sets with static camera movements and box set choreo'....it's just gotten old and no amount of budget is ever going to change that unfortunately.
I honestly don't care about Kill This Love, it's a surface level attractive video which largely amounts to a random collection of pretty scenes, the only point I'm touching on it for is the pyrotechnics used for the explosion scene. Even if you gave Naive the budget for something like that it would be thrown down the toilet.
Ultimately if you were to ask me, based on my limited experience, what would likely cost more a single pyrotechnic scene in a warehouse studio(likely owned by the company) or flying an entire crew out to film on location with a set also delivered and constructed at that location to film on the water? 100% everyday of the week the scene in More & More was higher budget by a lot....but it just further emphasizes no matter how much you give Naive these days the end product is going to look tacky and cheap.
Sadly the issue is JYPE think's it's enough to make sure in the future the videos just don't contain plagiarism rather than what Once are actually asking for.
Naive has to go for me. I'm sorry but we need to stop judging them based on MV's from 2 or more years ago, their recent work has been garbage. If I was to put in shifts at work like that in my job do you think my boss would give a shit that 2 years ago I used to be good at it? No. but for Naive it's worse than that, not only do they suck but they also massively downgraded Twice's image during More & More and that's not something I can't ever move past.
There's a reason on the recent 20k user survey over 90% of Once wanted Twice to not work with Naive, it's damning.
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Weekly updates.
44, More & More 9,346,848
It dropped a decent few places this week. In the last two updates it's dropped a huge 13 places in spite of only 3 new song entries ahead of it..
For reference last week I pointed out it's position relative to Feel Special, so same thing again. In it's 13th week Feel Special was at #56(1 position up from week 12) and had 9,805,515 points, a drop of 0,961,790 while More & More dropped 1,420,457.
Given the last few weeks it's looking probable that More & More becomes Twice worst charting song should it fail to stabilize, being a Summer song in September that seems less and less likely.
It seems Oneiric Dairy once again failed to chart witin the top 100. Looking increasingly unlikely they will register any sales this month and falling into a similar selling pattern to BloomIz so I think once again Twice will just increase their lead.
44, More & More 9,346,848
It dropped a decent few places this week. In the last two updates it's dropped a huge 13 places in spite of only 3 new song entries ahead of it..
For reference last week I pointed out it's position relative to Feel Special, so same thing again. In it's 13th week Feel Special was at #56(1 position up from week 12) and had 9,805,515 points, a drop of 0,961,790 while More & More dropped 1,420,457.
Given the last few weeks it's looking probable that More & More becomes Twice worst charting song should it fail to stabilize, being a Summer song in September that seems less and less likely.