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Can this company start getting serious? Currently on pre-order and being teased at the same time..
On & Off
Better
Eyes Wide Open
TwiceZine Vol 2
5th Anniversary Merch
In case anyone is wondering just for morbid curiosity that's about a 6 week window and the total cost of all that(granted that's not what 99% of fans will buy, but still most will at least want to get some of the above.).
is around 320 Dollars worth of stuff on sales at the same time....it's just crazy, this also coming a week after they just raked in over 4m Dollars on a scam compilation album.
On & Off
Better
Eyes Wide Open
TwiceZine Vol 2
5th Anniversary Merch
In case anyone is wondering just for morbid curiosity that's about a 6 week window and the total cost of all that(granted that's not what 99% of fans will buy, but still most will at least want to get some of the above.).
is around 320 Dollars worth of stuff on sales at the same time....it's just crazy, this also coming a week after they just raked in over 4m Dollars on a scam compilation album.
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NewUser
StanI find US charting a bit odd
How did SuperM debut at number one with a load of bundles but BP with their load of bundles couldn't and had less overall sales as well in the first week? BP are relatively much more popular
Anyone know what SuperM specifically did differently? Just genuine curiosity as I can't recall
How did SuperM debut at number one with a load of bundles but BP with their load of bundles couldn't and had less overall sales as well in the first week? BP are relatively much more popular
Anyone know what SuperM specifically did differently? Just genuine curiosity as I can't recall
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SSo the best way I figure is, much like the Album being a Korean product any and all sales made outside of Korea will still ultimately reflect on Korean charts(so the US sales count for US and SK charts(Gaon)) where as SuperM product is basically sold as a US product distributed from the USA so their BB numbers effectively act as Gaon numbers for most groups.
So any and all sales are effectively declared as 'exports' so even if Koreans buy it, that's still a US album being exported to Korea. Same as if I buy a Twice album here in the UK it will still count toward Korean charts.
oldtimer
NuguAnyone has any predictions on how this upcoming comeback will do?
My honest opinion is that this comeback will have a hard time surpassing more&more's achievements (digitals+physicals). The fans' animosity towards JYPE is really killing any hype (if there's any at all) for Eyes Wide Open. It's sad because this is the second full album but when you get succeeding releases with subpar quality, this is what happens.
My honest opinion is that this comeback will have a hard time surpassing more&more's achievements (digitals+physicals). The fans' animosity towards JYPE is really killing any hype (if there's any at all) for Eyes Wide Open. It's sad because this is the second full album but when you get succeeding releases with subpar quality, this is what happens.
oldtimer
NuguWe all know that they only see fans as ATMs anyway lol
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Yeah this comeback seems to be struggling so far to get any real hype or anticipation behind for a few reasons like the constant spoiling, the lack of creativity with the very very little teaser's we've had so far and mostly the fact that jyp is teasing 5th anniversary and Better instead of putting any emphasis on Eyes Wide Open.
I think oddly enough though it will actually do much better than M&M long term on the charts. Retro/old school sound is trendy in Korea these days and some of the people behind this song were behind some really good songs in Kpop recently.
In terms of sales...nope. I think it will be lower than M&M just based on hype level and current pre-orders being lower + shorter pre-order period and I think due to constant bullshitting and abusing the J fans I feel like jyp has killed off a lot of Twices Jonce so I expect lower sales this time.
You don't sell 320 bucks worth of good at the same time and expect mad good results.
oldtimer
NuguAgree on the sales part. I’ve seen people target 1M preorders and that’s just impossible given how little we know so far and the very short preorder period plus I don’t think the fandom grew that much tbh. I think even 500k is a tall order at this point. The way jype is promoting this comeback, I can see that they don’t really care about sales records. Add to the fact they’re releasing a bunch of other things to buy as well. Fans don’t have unlimited money so it’s a matter of which release is more important.
Digital-wise it would really depend on the song. If the “leak” was legit, then I hope you’re right that it will do better in the long run. I’m not expecting much but am still hoping for the best. More&more had the hype of being the comeback after 9mos and the first OT9 promotions after Fancy, but Eyes Open Wide doesn’t have that advantage so it has to be a good song for it to do well.
colorpop
StanThe "leak" you are talking about ist the instrumental one, where some dude was filming his screen?
Anyway, my bet is that this album won't beat M&M, and it's totally ok since current situation is clearly against physical sales success. What's more important right now is releasing acutally good song to gain back korean general public attention. Quality MV is also should be priority. I think JYPE really underestimates MV importance in terms of fanbase building
All in all it's such a make-or-break moment for TWICE rn, not many chances for mistakes left.
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Where's that?
oldtimer
NuguNot really. I was pertaining to that tweet of the details of the title song. I saw it floating around twitter.
Yeah. There really isn’t anything we can do now regarding the physical sales. Antis are gonna rub that in our faces lol
With Naive out, I hope we get a better quality MV this time. Something that has rewatchability factor. M&M’s mv was not their best and I honestly didn’t enjoy watching it (nor did I enjoy listening to the song tbh).
I don’t think it’s a make-it-or-break-it comeback as I’ve seen other artists have a string of lackluster releases only to comeback with a hit but if they want to preserve their prestige as a digital monster then the song has to perform above average.
colorpop
StanJust folks on twitter made some really unexpected connections between this Tushar Apte dude who claimed that "TWICE's next single" was produced by his friend as well as it being an 80's inspired track, and video he uploaded on instagram.
Seems like a huge reach imo, dude clearly said it's not him who is involved with TWICE production, but they are already flooded his comments lol.
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Okay thanks for the share...I can see why they would make the connection, but at the same time you can also just look up the song copyright and see he's not on the track at all. So ti would be very surprising if it was at all related, not even getting into whether or not he would get into trouble for revealing it lol.
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Wouldn’t say it’s a “make or break moment“ for twice when RV had 3 strings of back to back flops and fans dragging SM to the mud then to come back with Psycho. Even Mamamoo faced a similar situation before.
Anyways I have a good feeling about this album, quality wise.
NewUser
StanI think people understate the importance of momentum for sustained growth/success, and I don't think Twice have ever had less and that's 100% on the company being useless.
If you told me at the start of the year that Twice would have their long awaited second full album and this would be the level of anticipation/momentum going into it I would not have believed you but unfortunately it's the case.
In recent months they have alienated the biggest/most important fanbases for Twice in KR and JP and also international fans with the MV/title track. That's ignoring the Korean GP after FS and M&M back to back. M&M had a long break going for it, the return of Mina, fans with a common goal to get the album record back from Izone. This only has the fact that it's a full album going for it. The BP marker seems very unattainable so I don't think many fans will care about it (feel like Izone's last/next album will beat M&m as well), and JYPE has treated everything about the release so far like every other mini so you can barely see much of an impact from that. Imagine having 4/5 preorders for different things open at the same time. How long can you honestly treat a fandom like that when you can already see some waning interest? It just screams they want to milk the fandom before any more decreases.
I do think there's a high chance this sells less than M&M though I'm still hoping that by some miracle JYPE have something up their sleeve to get some momentum back (it's why pre-releases for a full album are so useful, get M&M out of peoples heads and potentially grow the fandom even more before the actual full release but we obviously never get those). Feel like if it does then you can't even argue against Twice being on a decline and will just have to accept seeing a lot of winding up from trolls about it. Adding falling Korean sales on top of falling digitals and Japanese sales, I don't even know how you could argue it much anymore.
It's just bad timing as well because every other group is enjoying some kind of 2nd peak so to speak and it coincides with JYPE completely dropping the ball with Twice. So the underperformance sticks out like a sore thumb in a time when everyone of their "competitors" is concurrently enjoying growth in the growing markets (China/west) and at home through their digitals. Leads to the "morale" of the fandom not being very great which also stunts momentum.
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NewUser
StanAlso just an idea of the difference in active listeners right now between Twice and some other groups in SK digitally. M&M was in the top 10 for 4 weeks, I don't even think G-Idle's last release got into the top 10.
colorpop
StanOfftop
As for IZ*ONE\TWICE competition: I've encountered lots of complains regarding quality of iz*one Japanese releases and decided to check some of them. And yeah, it's even worse than I imagined. Vampire, Buenos Aires and the recent one - Beware (ESPECIALLY BEWARE), sounds worse than some amateur cover recordings on youtube. It just feels like it wasn't mixed and mastered at all, to the point it's kind of disrespectful to actually sell it for full price. So, yeah, somtimes, in comparison, JYPE is really not that bad.
That also shows how sure kpop agencies are that hardcore fanbase will buy everyting their faves release. Maybe JYPE shares the same opinion.
That also shows how sure kpop agencies are that hardcore fanbase will buy everyting their faves release. Maybe JYPE shares the same opinion.
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oldtimer
NuguThe recent spike in album sales of other groups are due to their increase in popularity and fandom power in China. That’s something Twice will prolly never have. Another good way to increase fandom size is thru solo activities/promotions but that’s also something Twice is not likely to have so we probably would have to accept that physicals are no longer our strongpoint.
Honestly, at this point I’m just hoping to like the songs in the album especially the title song.
NewUser
StanI always found a lot of Japanese kpop releases just badly mixed so it seems to be a common issue but yeah, I've heard some of them and they aren't very good.
Izone were going for the AKB style though and they're a time limited group so at least milking them makes sense
Yeah honestly the way kpop has unfolded has been disadvantageous to Twice in the long run compared to the competition. I could write a lot on it but Twice were set up to dominate SK and Japan and they did for a good 3/4 years.
Twice's western fanbase was always impressive due to the nature of their music but that stemmed from the OG kpop crowd that didn't hundred percent mind it, they were into kpop for those sounds and idiosyncrasies.
Westerners in general like individuality (Twice do nothing solo and have a lot of members), smaller groups, ability to converse in English at least a bit etc. There are so many small inherent barriers and disadvantages to Twice that the growing kpop crowd is hard to fully take advantage off. It makes the little they have done there very impressive.
For physicals China has been the game-changer for everyone, MMM/BP/RV/17/NCT etc. All their main increases have come from there and Twice's as well really for M&M. But yeah, how far can that really go, potentially. I feel like I read about things like the below fairly often and the political aspect is something other fans will always be able to throw at Twice as they've been "tainted" with that association. BP and RV have been bigger there for a while, WSJN more recently. G-Idle (their Chinese members acknowledge the fanbase etc) and Izone seem to be at a similar level to Twice in terms of fanbase. MMM have been growing there as well, especially looking at individual sales for their solos with Hwasa's Maria going semi-viral over there this year as well.
Also you think about China and whether you even want to put Tzuyu in a position to try and promote Twice there after all that happened and still happens (as we saw with her donations earlier in the year) and I'd fall on the not really side.
Cnetz are brutal and the political ammunition she can provide can be too destructive.
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I listened to Beware after hearing how garbage it's production is supposed to be on Twt. My goodness, who puts out this trash? I could never imagine jyp putting out something so low quality and not an opinion but just generally poor production value.
After Vampire I didn't think it could get worse but it did.
Though being as least disrespectful as I can Izone don't really sell music and their fans who are generally older wota types probably don't even listen to it anyway. I mean how else do you sell 500k with trash charting in Japan, below average in Korea and Youtube/Spotify/SNS numbers lower than most rookies..? So I don't think their fans even notice how rushed/low effort it is
After Vampire I didn't think it could get worse but it did.
Though being as least disrespectful as I can Izone don't really sell music and their fans who are generally older wota types probably don't even listen to it anyway. I mean how else do you sell 500k with trash charting in Japan, below average in Korea and Youtube/Spotify/SNS numbers lower than most rookies..? So I don't think their fans even notice how rushed/low effort it is
I also think if you look at Everglow, Gidle, NCT, BP, Mamamoo and prolly even more they run long term donation and savings campaigns to respective degrees of success, even Twice managed to have fans raise over 100,000 albums last time(almost as much a Jonce) and the China fans tend to fully support the comebacks since they don't/won't get Chinese comebacks or concerts in the same sense Japan fans will so the culture is different.
As I said in a previous comment over the last 9 months BP China fans raised roughly 5million Dollars for the Korean comeback which was about 450k albums...that's just an insane level of support...but on the other hand JOnce just sped over 4million Dollars in 2 weeks on a shitty compilation album..
Japan Once/fans in general will never support Korean comebacks since it makes more sense to keep their money for domestic releases and concerts, something China fans will never have to worry about. If Kpop is ever unbanned in China we'll see a massive reduction in these fan projects imho.