ANNOUNCEMENT A letter to you and an update

[AshithBangera]

While I appreciate the decision and the circumstances that led to it, I have to admit to having mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I personally have made the conscious decision to remain here on H+ because I do appreciate the relatively drama-free and troll-free discussions around here. That's not to say there haven't been moments where I've gotten my back up, but even heated discussions have their value if people are intent on discussing rather than attacking. And like everyone here, I hope that discussion environment remains.

On the other hand, opposing points of view, even those that you strongly object against, are protected under the principals of free speech. I recently decided to leave one of the discords to focus on this forum as main platform for my Twice and Kpop-related news - I simply prefer the forum format and couldn't afford that time drain that discord can be. But one element of fandom specific discords I've been wary of since the beginning is the often unfettered and unfiltered discussions, especially regarding other fandoms, that can happen on discords - the lack of dissenting or opposing voices can often turn such channels into echo chambers. In that regard, I place a lot of value in the diversity of views and opinions that an open forum can have, and the check and balance that opposing views can play in a discussion.

This is why I feel that this decision, while well-intentioned, may end up encouraging less discussion rather than more. That is not to say that I would like to invite the trolls here to start posting hate-filled threads. But I think a situation in which mods are now pre-approving threads feels like a drastic overstep, and a little Nineteen Eighty Four As it is now, mods aren't always available to answer all our questions or requests round the clock, so I wonder if they will be able to cope with this administrative role on top of everything else.

Just to be clear, this "essay" stems less from the circumstances leading to the decision but more on my own personal views of freedom and free speech. I know that the rules are directed at a particular set of posts referencing a particular set of sites, and I'm not really a big fan of the stuff being posted either. I am also well aware that there are limits to free speech, and that even a society that protects free speech can be destroyed if people choose to speak for extremes. However, I feel that the issue of unwanted hate-filled posts could have been resolved by removing offending posts as and when they crop up, as opposed to imposing a pre-approval process for thread starting.

I certainly would like to maintain a safe and healthy discussion environment in H+, but I'd rather for it to happen because the users are intent on to keeping it safe, rather than be forced to do so. The truth is, we are never far from those comments. Even with the Naver articles or Twitter posts that often get linked at the start of threads, one can often find hateful comments just a scroll away down in the comments.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

there is a difference between having discussion here based on articles and bringing toxic/hateful comments from an article. Nobody is stopping you from bringing articles here and discuss​

 

[vitaminplus]

While I appreciate the decision and the circumstances that led to it, I have to admit to having mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I personally have made the conscious decision to remain here on H+ because I do appreciate the relatively drama-free and troll-free discussions around here. That's not to say there haven't been moments where I've gotten my back up, but even heated discussions have their value if people are intent on discussing rather than attacking. And like everyone here, I hope that discussion environment remains.

On the other hand, opposing points of view, even those that you strongly object against, are protected under the principals of free speech. I recently decided to leave one of the discords to focus on this forum as main platform for my Twice and Kpop-related news - I simply prefer the forum format and couldn't afford that time drain that discord can be. But one element of fandom specific discords I've been wary of since the beginning is the often unfettered and unfiltered discussions, especially regarding other fandoms, that can happen on discords - the lack of dissenting or opposing voices can often turn such channels into echo chambers. In that regard, I place a lot of value in the diversity of views and opinions that an open forum can have, and the check and balance that opposing views can play in a discussion.

This is why I feel that this decision, while well-intentioned, may end up encouraging less discussion rather than more. That is not to say that I would like to invite the trolls here to start posting hate-filled threads. But I think a situation in which mods are now pre-approving threads feels like a drastic overstep, and a little Nineteen Eighty Four As it is now, mods aren't always available to answer all our questions or requests round the clock, so I wonder if they will be able to cope with this administrative role on top of everything else.

Just to be clear, this "essay" stems less from the circumstances leading to the decision but more on my own personal views of freedom and free speech. I know that the rules are directed at a particular set of posts referencing a particular set of sites, and I'm not really a big fan of the stuff being posted either. I am also well aware that there are limits to free speech, and that even a society that protects free speech can be destroyed if people choose to speak for extremes. However, I feel that the issue of unwanted hate-filled posts could have been resolved by removing offending posts as and when they crop up, as opposed to imposing a pre-approval process for thread starting.

I certainly would like to maintain a safe and healthy discussion environment in H+, but I'd rather for it to happen because the users are intent on to keeping it safe, rather than be forced to do so. The truth is, we are never far from those comments. Even with the Naver articles or Twitter posts that often get linked at the start of threads, one can often find hateful comments just a scroll away down in the comments.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

From all the users here I never expected you to write something like this I'm actually really disappointed in you I'm not joking at all when i say that. And its just hate comments from Nate and other sites, not all/ the article itself so I don't get it so why should we allow hate translated comments in the first place they are just filled with hatred I don't understand how that would fill up discussions I get the articles part but not the comment part ...

 

[rananicolee]

Thank you guys!

I really can understand it. There was a group of comments that NB decided to translate about TOP for whatever reason. She knows TOP is hated among the users on her site. The comments were hateful. Some of the comments from the users on the site were bordering on the line of wishing he would disappear if you catch my what I'm saying.

These type of translations are not needed in the international kpop world. Other sites are now translating whatever they find to spread hate.

 

[vitaminplus]

Thank you for this by the way the i-community needs to stop hyping those comments up many people get influenced from those comments too so filtering them is definitely the best option

 

[rosie]

While I appreciate the decision and the circumstances that led to it, I have to admit to having mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I personally have made the conscious decision to remain here on H+ because I do appreciate the relatively drama-free and troll-free discussions around here. That's not to say there haven't been moments where I've gotten my back up, but even heated discussions have their value if people are intent on discussing rather than attacking. And like everyone here, I hope that discussion environment remains.

On the other hand, opposing points of view, even those that you strongly object against, are protected under the principals of free speech. I recently decided to leave one of the discords to focus on this forum as main platform for my Twice and Kpop-related news - I simply prefer the forum format and couldn't afford that time drain that discord can be. But one element of fandom specific discords I've been wary of since the beginning is the often unfettered and unfiltered discussions, especially regarding other fandoms, that can happen on discords - the lack of dissenting or opposing voices can often turn such channels into echo chambers. In that regard, I place a lot of value in the diversity of views and opinions that an open forum can have, and the check and balance that opposing views can play in a discussion.

This is why I feel that this decision, while well-intentioned, may end up encouraging less discussion rather than more. That is not to say that I would like to invite the trolls here to start posting hate-filled threads. But I think a situation in which mods are now pre-approving threads feels like a drastic overstep, and a little Nineteen Eighty Four As it is now, mods aren't always available to answer all our questions or requests round the clock, so I wonder if they will be able to cope with this administrative role on top of everything else.

Just to be clear, this "essay" stems less from the circumstances leading to the decision but more on my own personal views of freedom and free speech. I know that the rules are directed at a particular set of posts referencing a particular set of sites, and I'm not really a big fan of the stuff being posted either. I am also well aware that there are limits to free speech, and that even a society that protects free speech can be destroyed if people choose to speak for extremes. However, I feel that the issue of unwanted hate-filled posts could have been resolved by removing offending posts as and when they crop up, as opposed to imposing a pre-approval process for thread starting.

I certainly would like to maintain a safe and healthy discussion environment in H+, but I'd rather for it to happen because the users are intent on to keeping it safe, rather than be forced to do so. The truth is, we are never far from those comments. Even with the Naver articles or Twitter posts that often get linked at the start of threads, one can often find hateful comments just a scroll away down in the comments.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Hello,

Thank you for voicing your thoughts on the matter! Truthfully, the arguments you listed above were our exact reasons for allowing all translated comments to be posted on this forum prior to the recent incident. This decision was, by no means, an easy one to make.

We know that there are good arguments for providing users with the freedom to bring in translated comments, and good arguments for restricting the content that enters this forum. This is why we settled on allowing articles to face moderation, prior to being posted.

I think we can all agree that some articles are not written with the best intent. Just as some claim that overly positive articles have little room for discussion, I personally believe that overly negative articles also leave little room for discussion. Your suggestion for removing offending posts when they pop up was what we had been doing before. However, after what has happened, we feel that we should not be giving voice to such posts at all. After all, there's little room for discussion when it's a post made to incite hate on certain artists or groups of people. All people can really do in such instances is retort the hate.

At the end of the day, we do want to maintain a safe environment on H+. One that does not compromise discussion. Please do know that our decision is not intended to impose some sort of totalitarian view on our users! We will not be allowing explicit hate posts on artists (e.g. comments dissing the way certain artists look in certain clothes or how artists are behaving), but you are free to start a respectful discussion around something similar except without the hate (e.g. talking about the way the clothing is styled, things that could have led up to the behaviour). Similarly, more constructive translated articles will also be judged on a case-by-case basis. We are also human, so if there is a decision that you disagree with about a particular thread, we can talk it through.

We just want to avoid giving voice to malicious content, if it can easily be avoided. If you are concerned about the timeliness of our moderation, I can assure you that a lot of us are lurking around. If you do have any further questions about this, please respond in the AAM I really appreciate how respectful you are being while discussing your thoughts!

 

[Whisky23]

Thank you for voicing your thoughts on the matter! Truthfully, the arguments you listed above were our exact reasons for allowing all translated comments to be posted on this forum prior to the recent incident. This decision was, by no means, an easy one to make.
...

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I can certainly appreciate that the decision your team made was a difficult one. A forum is essentially a society in miniature - and like irl, you can't please everyone, and I'm sure your team took the greater good into consideration. As can be seen by some of the responses, some people seem to have misconstrued my essay as a form of support for those articles, which is wasn't - it was more a general comment about free speech and censorship, and a general caution that gatekeeping can be a slippery slope. To be honest, I almost deleted that long-winded essay because I suspected some might misunderstand and not respond well to it. But I left it be, partly to see who would get tripped up by the words rather than see the spirit of the post.

 

[UMJI MOODS]

Thank you very much. I often felt hateful NB posts violated the trolling and antagonizing rule(also bashing). I feel much better.

 

[Dragon of the West]

Thanks for reaching this decision! Those toxic comments were doing absolutely nothing in terms of creating any sort of healthy discussion and there's no way anyone can justify them.

 

[Jibang]

On balance i think this is a good idea. I've read upsetting and hateful comments about my bias from those sites, and other than making me upset, I don't see how they should be rewarded by others copying and pasting their hate onto other sites.

 

[KrabbySana]

Finally. This is a good step. No one is gaining anything from spreading hate.

 

[Astro]

I don’t agree but hey if it makes ppl feel better I’m all for it

 

[Marytta]

Thank you so much! This is why I love tis site I have seen some nasty articles, a recent one bashing chaeryeong's visuals, Jennie's usual hate articles and just nasty comments overall. It'd be great to ban such articles because they add nothing to this forum. A great decision!

 

[Lilac]

Thank you for the update.