What do you think of virtual idols (AI) in K-pop?

[Lilac]

Virtual idols: do you like them or not really? Do you think they can sustain in the Kpop industry?

First Korean virtual singer to debut is Apoki in 2021. Afterwards, virtual idol groups debuted (e.g. K/DA, Mave, Superkind, Feverse), and there will be more debuting in the future. Feverse is a VR group from survival show Girls Re:verse who made their debut earlier this month with 'CHO'.

Kpop fans tend to like idols whom they can relate to, and it's harder to do that without seeing real faces. So there is a question of whether there would be a demand for virtual idols in the long run. If the music is good, then there will be people listening to them. As for the quality of music, I don't think they are different from regular groups as there are humans behind making music. Even for talent, they are for the most part voiced by real humans. As of now, I'm neutral to them.

Part of stanning idols is about their personality and their interactions with fellow members and with fans, so in a way virtual idols won't be able to have as much fandom. But virtual idol can be a good niche market within the kpop industry. In addition, AI is a viable solution for those who want to sing and not worry about their appearances in front of the public. Who knows they may have longevity because they don't have to worry about natural human aging and can be customized for looks easier. They don't need to be housed, fed, or styled so it can be a cost effective solution for companies wanting to debut a group. Maybe the AI concept will sustain in Kpop for a long term even if it's not the most popular concept.

 

[Seriously]

I think they can be super cool from a technical standpoint. Huge K/DA fan, the videos are stunning, and they bring bops.

However, the key reason I think K/DA worked (besides a ridiculous budget) is that they aren't trying to look like people....
The characters are already defined, and they went with an unrealistic art style. So no uncanny valley monsters.

I liked Mave's song, Pandora unironically slaps... but they are kinda creepy looking kek. I think that's the mistake many companies make, aiming for realistic never quite works out. If they aren't real people, why not go nuts anyway!

That said. If you wanna know whether people can become attached to virtual personas, just take a look over at Japan's vocaloid industry. Miku outsells your faves 10x over, while filling bigger stadiums.

 

[hatmixx]

IDC about them really. If there was a banger song i'd listen. But i'm not gonna stan a virtual idol lol

 

[UMJI MOODS]

but they are kinda creepy looking kek. I think that's the mistake many companies make, aiming for realistic never quite works out. If they aren't real people, why not go nuts anyway!

⬆️This⬆️
When they try for realism but they look creepy and plastic. Not a hair out of place. This is why I am okay with Apoki who is very cartoony.

I dont mind someone like Apoki who is guiding her own career but I worry about the potential for exploitation by companies. Nameless and faceless voices behind groups like Mave are at high risk of being exploited with little opportunity for them to gain genuine fame. Also I bet that they are paid far less and work under the spectre of being replaced by another person if they ask for more money. The companies probably see it as a low risk and potentially high profits plan. The AI characters never age, get tired, gain weight or say or do anything problematic. It is a slippery slope for real idols ultimately.​

 

[Bchip]

Not my cup of tea.
K/DA is the only one that works for me because: 1) bops K/DA's All Out still is one of the best GG mini-albums released in the past few years IMO and 2) LoL characters have an extensive lore, so if feels like you're seeing another spectrum of that character instead of watching an AI trying to emulate a human.

 

[BianTwo]

If it's only for songs, you don't probably care as long as you like the songs.

But for K-pop ? When the parasocial interaction is like one of the main point ? It's not ready.

Maybe in the future when IA got improved a lot to be almost human or humanlike in their behavior and in their design/visual. But currently it's not the case.

 

[choively]

At first I like them.. but since ChatGPT has come out ai nowadays start getting wierd&funky&creapy for me because now ai is like dominating everything and the people.. I thought there real btw but they're actually fake.

No because in Superkind that ai dude is not in some of their videos so that mean the programmers of that ai cant keep up with all the editing and everything.

 

[Vampire]

A virtual idol is not inherently AI.

Example:

But South Korean technology has made much progress since then in creating virtual characters. MAVE: is more natural-looking thanks to new tools and artificial intelligence that developers used to create facial expressions and small details like streaks in hair, viewers say.

With the aid of an AI voice generator, its members can speak four languages - Korean, English, French and Bahasa. But they can't speak in response to prompts and have to rely on scripts prepared by humans.

The group's voices heard in the debut single "Pandora" and the choreography in the music video were created by human performers and processed by motion capture and real-time 3D rendering technologies.

source (which has a disgenious title imo but what do i know)

The important part is bolded. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe we're at the point where AI is able to create 3D renderings at a mass level. Will we probably get there eventually? Yeah, but for now, those are humans performing those choreographies and songs, and those are humans behind the scenes polishing the motion capture and real-time 3D renderings until they have a presentable product (e.g. a music video). It sounds like artificial intelligence was used to better refine the models of their idols and assist in multilanguage use... and then humans had to do the rest of the work.

Furthermore, I'm sure most people here are aware of the rise of the VTubers during 2020, right? A lot of them are like, full-blown virtual idols now, and it would be way off to refer to them as AI as well.

This is what goes into it:

3D VTuber models, in contrast, are more complex yet provide a much higher degree of freedom. Your character will mimic how you move and can even stand up. You can model and rig a VTuber from scratch using animation software like Autodesk Maya, but utilizing an avatar creator (such as Vroid Studio mentioned later in this tutorial) will provide you with a pre-built rig that requires minimal work.

Both types of animation rigs can be made for full-body movement or half-body animation, depending on your mocap software and tools. The simplest of rigs can be limited to just facial rigging to allow for the mouth and eyeball movement and some basic head, neck, and shoulder joints. No matter which rig you choose, building your character from scratch will give you full commercial usage of the avatar. But remember that rigging can take some time, so be sure you’re ready to spend more than a few hours working on getting it right.

source

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I'll get back on track, though!

Kpop fans tend to like idols whom they can relate to, and it's harder to do that without seeing real faces. So there is a question of whether there would be a demand for virtual idols in the long run.

Part of stanning idols is about their personality and their interactions with fellow members and with fans, so in a way virtual idols won't be able to have as much fandom.

The rise of VTubers has shown that people absolutely can and will relate to an avatar and become infatuated with them because those virtual idols, at least, are not just some lifeless shells of coding—they do have personalities and they do have interactions with others. (Many VTubers are part of groups themselves and even create and stream together.) I bring up VTubers again because more than a handful of them have millions of subscribers, so I just think it's a relevant talking point.

Do I think virtual idols will ever get that popular within K-Pop, though? No. Understandably, the idea is not everyone's tea... but more than that, I think a VERY LARGE part of the general K-Pop audience is too annoying to give it a chance, anyway. They latch onto their biases, think of them as God on Earth, and thrive off of supporting someone they think is superior to everyone else. They would resent something a little less human doing even remotely well.

I think they can be super cool from a technical standpoint. Huge K/DA fan, the videos are stunning, and they bring bops.

However, the key reason I think K/DA worked (besides a ridiculous budget) is that they aren't trying to look like people....
The characters are already defined, and they went with an unrealistic art style. So no uncanny valley monsters.

I liked Mave's song, Pandora unironically slaps... but they are kinda creepy looking kek. I think that's the mistake many companies make, aiming for realistic never quite works out. If they aren't real people, why not go nuts anyway!

That said. If you wanna know whether people can become attached to virtual personas, just take a look over at Japan's vocaloid industry. Miku outsells your faves 10x over, while filling bigger stadiums.

You bring up an excellent point about K/DA that I agree with. Style > Realism.

Also, Vocaloid is definitely more computer than MAVE and the VTubers, but still an absolutely valid comparison.

 

[Po'etry]

I liked Plave's songs so far. They have a digital single coming out by the end of this quarter.

 

[Lilac]

A virtual idol is not inherently AI.

Example:

The important part is bolded. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe we're at the point where AI is able to create 3D renderings at a mass level. Will we probably get there eventually? Yeah, but for now, those are humans performing those choreographies and songs, and those are humans behind the scenes polishing the motion capture and real-time 3D renderings until they have a presentable product (e.g. a music video). It sounds like artificial intelligence was used to better refine the models of their idols and assist in multilanguage use... and then humans had to do the rest of the work.

Furthermore, I'm sure most people here are aware of the rise of the VTubers during 2020, right? A lot of them are like, full-blown virtual idols now, and it would be way off to refer to them as AI as well.

This is what goes into it:

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I'll get back on track, though!



The rise of VTubers has shown that people absolutely can and will relate to an avatar and become infatuated with them because those virtual idols, at least, are not just some lifeless shells of coding—they do have personalities and they do have interactions with others. (Many VTubers are part of groups themselves and even create and stream together.) I bring up VTubers again because more than a handful of them have millions of subscribers, so I just think it's a relevant talking point.

Do I think virtual idols will ever get that popular within K-Pop, though? No. Understandably, the idea is not everyone's tea... but more than that, I think a VERY LARGE part of the general K-Pop audience is too annoying to give it a chance, anyway. They latch onto their biases, think of them as God on Earth, and thrive off of supporting someone they think is superior to everyone else. They would resent something a little less human doing even remotely well.


You bring up an excellent point about K/DA that I agree with. Style > Realism.

Also, Vocaloid is definitely more computer than MAVE and the VTubers, but still an absolutely valid comparison.

As of now, humans are doing most of the work behind the virtual groups (singing, choreography, etc). Recent kpop virtual groups have been marketed as AI groups though. Mave is the first group to be marketed as such and then there's Eternity. Also Hybe has announced that they are debuting a virtual singer, MIDNATT, powered by AI technology. The singing voice behind MIDNATT is none other than the singer Lee Hyun so there's very much a human involvement behind the scenes.

Vocaloids look like anime characters while recent Kpop virtual groups look more like human. Even if they look closely human, most Kpop fans (including me) aren't going to stan them over human idols. I'd listen to their songs casually, and not go further than that. it seems like virtual idols are bringing variety to Kpop rather than replacing human idols. I see future virtual idol groups using more AI technology and automation; who knows if technology can eventually get there.