What I don't understand about KPOP and the korean mentality

[GuardianofTheCosmicRealm]

Whenever a chinese idol leaves their groups and return home to China because of better oppertunities, koreans call them backstabber and traitor. But still, they take in chinese trainees. Koreans wants to boycott Japan and made petitions to send japanese idols home. Korea has a bad history with Japan, but still take in japanese trainees. While Southeast Asia with 4 big countries, Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippines and Thailand that look up to Korea, don't have a bad history with Korea, huge interest for Kpop but Kpop agencies refuse to take in anybody from there, except for Thailand thanks to Nichkhun. What are the reasons? Money or just the old xenohobia towards SEA?

 

[Grape Soda]

Uhhhh I guess it depends on the company. Chinese members and Japanese members are added because they want their money. China spends money because they are supporting Chinese members and Japan is the 2nd biggest music market after US. Its about money. With Sea id count on it being xenophobia

 

[BlueNose]

i always wondered that. but i think it just comes down to Japan and Chinese money being better than SEA. Xenophobia exists and that may be a part of it, but a decent amount of kpop groups still tour and do concerts over there when they can. and SEA fans can be hardcore for their favs from what i've seen. So it doesnt really make sense to me to not take advantage of that unless the costs vs profits weren't as worth it as Japan or china

But i will say that even though Korea, Japan, and China have terrible history with each other, they've always still somehow managed to do work together and mix business

 

[MVSica]

Yeah it is kind of odd, definitely gets old with the China aspect(THAAD, One China vs HK) and the way members seem to leave is pretty annoying. Japan/korea situation is well.. yeah we all know already. Anecdotally, I do suspect there is plenty of SEA Xenophobia tbh, I dont think that's the primary reason tho as economics is far more of a driver than stuff like that. I also think that do to the large amount of Korean trainees combined with the potential buying power and popularity of Chinese and Japanese trainees that SEA trainees definitely are at a disadvantage to being a KPop idol From a Korean Kpop company. I think to make it they would probably have to have an exceptional SEA trainee to break through against all that competition and fundamental disadvantage of being from a different country with a smaller music market.

 

[echobunny]

i'm just surprised they're not recruiting more j-members, since they can't run off like c-idols after having some success (k-pop companies have good connections and contracts with big labels there)
sea probably don't have the desired look, thai idols that debut in korea look half asian most of the time

 

[Aquamaraqua]

i'm just surprised they're not recruiting more j-members, since they can't run off like c-idols after having some success (k-pop companies have good connections and contracts with big labels there)
sea probably don't have the desired look, thai idols that debut in korea look half asian most of the time

There's no such thing as looking half Asian when said idols are fully Asian... Asia isn't a monolith. I think you mean they don't look as East Asian. SEA has a rich culture influenced by India and China, as well as native tribes, so there's a reason why they aren't exactly like East Asians look-wise.

 

[GuardianofTheCosmicRealm]

i'm just surprised they're not recruiting more j-members, since they can't run off like c-idols after having some success (k-pop companies have good connections and contracts with big labels there)
sea probably don't have the desired look, thai idols that debut in korea look half asian most of the time

Accoring to a chinese trainee at MLD, there are some japanese training there

 

[GuardianofTheCosmicRealm]

There's no such thing as looking half Asian when said idols are fully Asian... Asia isn't a monolith. I think you mean they don't look as East Asian. SEA has a rich culture influenced by India and China, as well as native tribes, so there's a reason why they aren't exactly like East Asians look-wise.

In my country Vietnam(I'm half viet btw), there are lots of girls and boys with EA looks. I think predujice against SEA is the main issue and it's just pathetic and sad. Here are vietnamese actors and artists

 

[Aquamaraqua]

In my country Vietnam(I'm half viet btw), there are lots of girls and boys with EA looks. I think predujice against SEA is the main issue and it's just pathetic and sad. Here are vietnamese actors and artists

I'm not saying no SEA looks East Asian, just that the ones they're talking about are fully Asian (mainly all Thai), and just because they don't have the typical east Asian look doesn't make them any less Asian.

 

[GuardianofTheCosmicRealm]

Yeah it is kind of odd, definitely gets old with the China aspect(THAAD, One China vs HK) and the way members seem to leave is pretty annoying. Japan/korea situation is well.. yeah we all know already. Anecdotally, I do suspect there is plenty of SEA Xenophobia tbh, I dont think that's the primary reason tho as economics is far more of a driver than stuff like that. I also think that do to the large amount of Korean trainees combined with the potential buying power and popularity of Chinese and Japanese trainees that SEA trainees definitely are at a disadvantage to being a KPop idol From a Korean Kpop company. I think to make it they would probably have to have an exceptional SEA trainee to break through against all that competition and fundamental disadvantage of being from a different country with a smaller music market.

I used to be a fan of Z-Girls and the Z-POP project, because I thought the cause of it was to challenge the korean mindset that SEA too can be as good as korean, chinese and japanese idols. Unfortunately, the project is a flop and didn't managed to prove anything. Would almost say it proved to the knetz skeptics that SEA don't have the visual to fit the Kpop beauty standard. Just look at some of the Zboys and you know what I'm talking about.

If only the project was a success in both musically and visually, I think it could have made korean companies have second thoughts about having SEA trainees. Maybe paved the way.

I hope somebody would try to make a pan-asian group like this again and avoid the mistakes from Zboys and Zgirls.

 

[GuardianofTheCosmicRealm]

I'm not saying no SEA looks East Asian, just that the ones they're talking about are fully Asian (mainly all Thai), and just because they don't have the typical east Asian look doesn't make them any less Asian.

Ofc, SEA with their diverse looks are asian. But koreans only want their idols to have a certain looks and some of the thai idols have that. Ten, Bambam and Minnie looks pretty EA to me. My point is that there are SEA young people with the looks they want, but just because of SEA as a region being looked down by koreans, they don't take in trainees.

 

[Whisky23]

Ofc, SEA with their diverse looks are asian. But koreans only want their idols to have a certain looks and some of the thai idols have that. Ten, Bambam and Minnie looks pretty EA to me. My point is that there are SEA young people with the looks they want, but just because of SEA as a region being looked down by koreans, they don't take in trainees.

Sure, they can find the preferred aesthetic, either EA or half-Asian look, in SEA. But the low hanging fruit is to look for it in JP and CN. There aren't a lot of SEA trainees because agencies don't recruit there. But at the same time, SEA trainees don't (as far as I know) go to SK to pursue agencies either. Add to that the fact that SEA earning potentials are lower, it's probably easier to stick to EA, or the US with EA communities.
Also, let's be frank - most of the Korean or EA trainees / idols didn't start off with the "right look" either.

 

[MVSica]

I used to be a fan of Z-Girls and the Z-POP project, because I thought the cause of it was to challenge the korean mindset that SEA too can be as good as korean, chinese and japanese idols. Unfortunately, the project is a flop and didn't managed to prove anything. Would almost say it proved to the knetz skeptics that SEA don't have the visual to fit the Kpop beauty standard. Just look at some of the Zboys and you know what I'm talking about.

If only the project was a success in both musically and visually, I think it could have made korean companies have second thoughts about having SEA trainees. Maybe paved the way.

Yeah I was curious about that project. I think besides beauty standards which Korea is pretty strict with what they like or not, singing in English was a bad idea and with no koreans(I think?) I could see why they would kind of ignore it tbh. Maybe in a few years as all of these markets grow and co-mingle more they will appreciate that type of project more. I think tbh its inevitable to have more trainees eventually for broader appeal to more markets but its not there yet.

 

[lusobr]

It's literally about money. If the SEA markets had more money than China and Japan you would see a flip. They don't so trying to make it in those markets are not the priority. They continue to go for Chinese and Japanese trainees because having some kind of edge into selling well in those markets is worth any kind of backlash from the Korean general populace. If China and Japan weren't literally the 2nd and 3rd biggest economies in the world you would not see them trying so hard to be marketable there.

 

[GuardianofTheCosmicRealm]

Yeah I was curious about that project. I think besides beauty standards which Korea is pretty strict with what they like or not, singing in English was a bad idea and with no koreans(I think?) I could see why they would kind of ignore it tbh. Maybe in a few years as all of these markets grow and co-mingle more they will appreciate that type of project more. I think tbh its inevitable to have more trainees eventually for broader appeal to more markets but its not there yet.

I hope so too. However, a project like that can be done properly right now, if a bigger company than a nugu is interested doing it.

4th gen is right around the corner, so perhaps we will see a small change.

 

[GuardianofTheCosmicRealm]

Sure, they can find the preferred aesthetic, either EA or half-Asian look, in SEA. But the low hanging fruit is to look for it in JP and CN. There aren't a lot of SEA trainees because agencies don't recruit there. But at the same time, SEA trainees don't (as far as I know) go to SK to pursue agencies either. Add to that the fact that SEA earning potentials are lower, it's probably easier to stick to EA, or the US with EA communities.
Also, let's be frank - most of the Korean or EA trainees / idols didn't start off with the "right look" either.

True.

I can't speak for Indonesia and Philippines. I would guess there are many who want to become a idol because of the huge interest in KPOP. But in Vietnam, there has been auditions from CUBE, RBW and SM last year and the turnout was a couple thousands. The interest is definately there. But will or have they taken in anybody? That question remains to be seen.

The Z-POP project as I mentioned was created to give SEA people a chance to become a idol. That what the CEO of Zenith said when he started it. He wouldn't have if there were no interest since they held auditions in Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam. People knew it wasn't exactly KPOP, but they came in thousands as well. So in my opinion, it's not the interest is lacking, it's because they haven't given the oppertunity.

 

[Whisky23]

The Z-POP project as I mentioned was created to give SEA people a chance to become a idol. That what the CEO of Zenith said when he started it. He wouldn't have if there were no interest since they held auditions in Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam. People knew it wasn't exactly KPOP, but they came in thousands as well. So in my opinion, it's not the interest is lacking, it's because they haven't given the oppertunity.

I think the path to Korea for SEA idol wannabees may very well be what some agencies like JYPE are doing - creating a local group for the local market, but with the Kpop training system. Like Nizi in JP, they are also doing a BG in Thailand. And I think I heard SM was doing something similar elsewhere. If this Thai BG is able to not only do well in Thailand, but also gain popularity regionally and internationally, perhaps Koreans will put aside their bias and consider idols from non-EA countries.

While xenophobia is there, part of it is also an issue of success, or lack there of - very few SEA artists have been able to gain international popularity like Kpop and K-drama artists have, giving Koreans more reasons to look down and dismiss SEA talent. I think Koreans will only be more accepting of SEA talents if they are able to create their own popularity on their own instead of riding on the kpop bandwagon.

 

[Pyron]

First, I think most people believe Koreans have beefy for historical reasons and recent bad events with Japan (and some extend China), but it's deeper than that. Koreans think Chinese and Japanese are lower than them just like Chinese and Japanese think the same. That's why these trio have similar bitter relationship. Also, rivalry is pretty big with Japan and SK as well which contribute with animosity. Geopolitical tensions are also very overlooked in their dynamic relationship.

However, you need to separate the hate/tension from people who want to do business/don't care about this bad blood. In today's world, SK has to trade with China and Japan. So naturally people between these three countries will move in and participate more compared to other countries around the area. Even with backlash from netizens we see here and reflect our skewed view on their opinions and views, it still natural to have more Chinese and Japanese trainees in SK agencies as the flow of trade is just that big compared to the rest.

Now move on to other countries, I think even thou there is no bad blood per se, there isn't much interaction either. East Asian xenophobic behavior may play some factor, but I don't think it's the case here (at least not that big of a factor). I think Thailand has the biggest trade flow with SK and that will reflect the amount of Thai trainees compared to the rest of SA. Still not comparable to Japan and China, but again it's all proportional with the flow of trade and people movement. Same with Taiwan.

You need easy access to the market to be able to move and live in SK easily. I don't think it's that easy for Southeast Asians in general to go try break in SK market as trainees as it's probably cost a lot for them to do so. Also, if you look trainees in general, they usually are not poor. So foreign trainees have to have some significant funds to go through very risk venture as a trainee as showbiz is very cutthroat. The number of other Southeast Asians willing to jump in and try would be significantly smaller.

We would see more Russians trainees as well if that would be the case, as aesthetically they'd be prized and have significant Korean population as well, but again I think the economics don't benefit them either. Russia and SK don't have much trade going on compared to others. Although overlooked for some reason as a indicator, there is a lot of Korean Americans in SK showbiz. Again it has to do with the flow of trade. Now we don't see as much with other countries with Koreans populations like Brazil or Argentina. There isn't much of them in SK showbiz. Again not much flow of trade with these countries compared to the US. Even less than Southeast Asians. You would think we would see more Korean Brazilian/Argentinian there, but nope.

So, people may justify with xenophobia and other loaded reasons, but in business this doesn't really matter much unless nationalistic/discriminatory laws are very prevalent, but it's not the case in SK. It's all about economic sense in the end. It just doesn't make much sense cost wise yet for both SK and SA nations.

Vietnam, Philippines, and Indonesia are I'd would call sleeping giants. As their economy and living situation improves and trade situation with SK increases, I think we will eventually see more prominent trainees from there with time if these conditions are properly met.