Giving Concept Advice to 4th Gen ggs

[AstroBaby]

I have always believed that the most important thing for a group's success in this oversaturated market (besides luck) is having a consistent and distinctive concept. So in this thread I'm gonna give some concept/general advice to some of the new girlies

1st Group: Rocket Punch

I don't think it's too controversial to say that Bim Bam Bum is their best title track so far. While I don't think that Bouncy was this big departure like some portray to be, I do think it had moments that felt a little too much like pandering to the Itzy brand of teen crush (i;e: the sing-chanting and some of the english lyrics) that made it seem a bit try-hard to people. And Juicy simply does not have enough stand-out qualities to make it the summer hit they were looking for. I think only the maknae line has really suited the latter two songs which is a shame given Juri's popularity and Yeonhee's it-girl potential.

One of the things that people really latched onto when it came to Bim Bam Bum was the emotional retro synth chorus. Which is why I propose that Rocket Punch should have: A Retro 80s/90s concept. I say 80s/90s because Rocket Punch's gen z fanbase ain't gonna know the difference and both are coming back in a big way (*cough* SSAK3 *cough*) but I'm leaning towards 80s here bc I started watching Pose~

Spoiler: Notes on Sound

Spoiler: Notes on Fashion

I couldn't find jpgs of some of my favorite looks so just google: "80s fashion Japan" to get a better idea
Makeup:

This makeup would be for when they lean into the more ~glam~ elements of the era such as:

for the more casual looks they could go more natural

I just think this concept would fit them so well and has a TON of versatility and doesn't force Dahyun and Sohee to be too mature but it also doesn't make Juri be too cute. They could start out fun and jumpy and mature into smooth driving anthems. They could do a whole gag song in aerobic gear with Sohee center and give her a JooE moment...Most importantly it wouldn't come out of nowhere because the chorus sound was already set up in Bim Bam Bum and Bouncy.

Woolim, I won't ask for credit or anything I just you want to look at the material.

2nd Group: Loona

Now, I don't think Blockberry has done anything wrong Loona necessarily (apart from the droughts ofc). I think their diversity of concepts makes sense given the scale of their pre-debut project and they have become somewhat of this generations SNSD in terms of showing the different sides of women/girls, and while we talk alot about their lack of domestic fandom Butterfly did make them a bit of a critical darling. The top music critic putting it in the top 3 idol songs of 2019, a feminist reviewer known for indie reviews talking about Butterfly as a breath of fresh air in idol music and comparing it to INTNW, and ofc, this year they snagged their 1st win with So What.

However, I think one of the best ways for Loona to continue this musical diversity and grow both domestically and abroad would be: to do stories again.
The thing that really made people pay attention to Loona pre-debut was the Loonaverse, BTS initial growth was due in large part to HYYH, and even Gfriend's individual mv storylines are arguably a factor in their success.

Hi High was the culmination of the 1st Loonverse arc and Butterfly seemingly being the start of a new storyline until ofc the Jaden mess happened and So What was the breakup song basically. But last I checked Jaden Jeong does own the idea of storytelling in kpop and if I were bbc I would be putting my heads together to come up with the next thing and getting the girls some acting lessons in the meantime.

But hey Blockberry if you need help here's a easy one to start out: you have 12 girls. There are 12 major Greek Gods. Put it together.

Spoiler: Notes on Sound

I don't really have much to say on the sound as I trust Loona production-wise. I will say that while I enjoy So What I don't think Loona is that suited to rap-based songs (which is why the bridge is the best part) but that's a rather minor note. In the meantime here are two examples of pulling off A Concept darling!

Spoiler: Notes on Fashion

For the Greek Myth conept

and if y'all don't like that give them nen and make them do a tournament arc idc
3rd Group: Everglow

At first I wasn't sure about including Everglow here because it seemed like they already had their own sound and their fanbase was growing steadily bc of it. I had initially written off the "Everglow is copying Blackpink' drama as fans overblowing concept and style similarities that aren't really that unique to one group or another. However while new kpop fans lack of exposure to other groups outside their faves was part of it, I made the unfortunate discovery that: all their title tracks have the same formula as bps , to varying degrees with Bon Bon Chocolat being the least guilty but I think once you notice it is pretty evident and I think it's too much to just call coincidence.

This makes me very angry not as someone who expects every pop song to be entirely unique because I don't, but I think the girls can do much better and Yuehua is nowhere near nugu enough to excuse them walking right into the 'Chinese plagiarism' stereotype. Now on the positive note I do appreciate that Everglow comes back more often than bp and that they don't rely on the formula in their bsides. One of the standout Everglow tracks for me is moon and I think Everglow as one of the few 4th gen gg with no minors has the potential to add a more mature and sexy feel to their brand of dance-y girl crush rather than just the shouty in your face ktl image they've gone for.

Spoiler: Notes on Sound

Note some of these songs arguably fall into the formula a bit as well but the vibe is more unique + it is a fairly common pop formula






and we go full circle:


I would also recommend the girls take some more vocal lessons because not singing live at your own concert is not the best look, idk enough to say if this is reflective of the girls ability or of Yuehua's reluctance to take risks (I suspect the latter) but more lessons might help with both.

I don't have any notes of fashion because I trust Everglow's stylist and think they've done pretty well (except for that first Bon Bon Chocolat stage w Ondas tutu that we don't talk about) + plus this concept idea isn't super specific.

I think this kind of vibe would make the group more memorable as a whole bc it would suit the visual line a lot more and give them an opportunity to shine rather than just Mia (and eventually Yena).

4th Group: GWSN

Keep doing what you're doing but have more money. Or rather spend the money you have more on the MVs than the ads for them.

Spoiler

although y'alls first mistake was giving the girls the most generic name possible but what's done is done ig

So uhhhh what do y'all think? Do you do this or are you normal?

 

[AstroBaby]

Feel free to add your own concept ideas if you have any! We are all creative directors in the mind~

 

[hatmixx]

I don't really have anything to say about the other 3 groups, but I feel you're totally on point with everglow. bon bon chocolat was such a breath of fresh air musically. Even though it waswaaaaaay to autotune heavy, it had a nice distinct sound and a fantastic choreo. Couple that with the moon b side and this group looked like they had a chance to forge their own path.

Then they released adios.. An obvious BP ripoff track. I was still hopeful for their future though. It was only one song. But dun dun sealed the deal. It's obvious the direction they are going. They can of course change, but as long as they are successful, they aren't likely to take any risks. I still like everglow, but I'm just sad that they are not going to jump off the BP coattails any time soon

 

[AstroBaby]

I don't really have anything to say about the other 3 groups, but I feel you're totally on point with everglow. bon bon chocolat was such a breath of fresh air musically. Even though it waswaaaaaay to autotune heavy, it had a nice distinct sound and a fantastic choreo. Couple that with the moon b side and this group looked like they had a chance to forge their own path.

Then they released adios.. An obvious BP ripoff track. I was still hopeful for their future though. It was only one song. But dun dun sealed the deal. It's obvious the direction they are going. They can of course change, but as long as they are successful, they aren't likely to take any risks. I still like everglow, but I'm just sad that they are not going to jump off the BP coattails any time soon

Yeah the sad thing is that taking the Blackpink sound is actually genius when you think about it. What's a group that does gangbusters every cb? Blackpink. What's a group that's almost never around to compete and has a easily imitable sound? Blackpink. And it's worked so far considering they got their first win, so they have no incentive to change...Capitalism babey!

At least the girls will have stable careers by the looks of it, it's just a shame they probably won't make a mark on the industry the way some of them likely wanted to.

 

[frostpuddle]

I don't really have anything to say about the other 3 groups, but I feel you're totally on point with everglow. bon bon chocolat was such a breath of fresh air musically. Even though it waswaaaaaay to autotune heavy, it had a nice distinct sound and a fantastic choreo. Couple that with the moon b side and this group looked like they had a chance to forge their own path.

Then they released adios.. An obvious BP ripoff track. I was still hopeful for their future though. It was only one song. But dun dun sealed the deal. It's obvious the direction they are going. They can of course change, but as long as they are successful, they aren't likely to take any risks. I still like everglow, but I'm just sad that they are not going to jump off the BP coattails any time soon

My favourite Everglow song is Adios. Even though it's considered a ripoff of BP, i think it's an improved version of BP's music style after AIIYL, so I don't understand why EG fans don't like it...


Nature:
Please keep the concept like their most recent comeback, Girls. That song and MV is excellent, amazing, *insert Lady Gaga gif*. Since Kpop is so saturated, I think the way for them to establish an identity is to have a theme or storyline, so maybe they can expand a bit more on the psychological horror concept (paranoia might work well in an MV).

However, I've watched a few of their variety, I think their group chemistry needs a little improvement, not sure how that can be done. I am a casual fan of many, but to go to the next step to really stan a group, they have to have good chemistry among the members with a mix of interesting personalities.


Fanatics:
So far, their group songs have stuck to a more cute concept, but I don't think they suit this concept. They need to change their style to a more mature concept (doesn't have to be girl crush or sexy, just less teenage oriented). They did many dance covers, and I think something like RV's style suits them. 4th-gen GG best dancer Chiayi is hidden in this group, so they should do a performance or choreo heavy type of music, to show their strength. I know Doah is the most popular member but you can't force the group to fit 1 member only, that's only setting up the group for failure. And stop switching the members around wtf.


PinkFantasy:
They should have continued with the Fantasy style with that rock influence. Quite sure they were pulling some attention from Dreamcatcher fans, but then they went back to a generic cute song like Playing House. That's a big mistake. Don't alternate Pink & Fantasy concept like Big 3 GGs, a nugu group can't afford that. They need to find their niche and then establish a fandom. With top tier vocals like Yechan and SeeA, they can do so much more. If they couldn't get attention from domestic, target the international, get that symphonic or gothic metal going, Yechan definitely can do it. Get rid of the rabbit, I can't take them seriously with it (gimmick doesn't last long, refer Crayon Pop). And stop switching the members around wtf.


Bvndit:
Don't have advice for them because they are doing everything right already. Instead, my advice to music fans is please stan Bvndit.

 

[hatmixx]

My favourite Everglow song is Adios. Even though it's considered a ripoff of BP, i think it's an improved version of BP's music style after AIIYL, so I don't understand why EG fans don't like it...

I don't like it bc i dont like BP's music XD

 

[BianTwo]

Everglow : probably releasing more contents. Epicklog are nice but they are released many months after and with no ENG subs. Many ideas like vlogs, mukbang, ASMR, dance covers (like during predebut), etc, in order to show more about their personnality and talents. For their songs, they can stick to ADIOS, DUN DUN and BBC, it can remind people about BP but with BBC they can still have their own distinct style. They got Sihyeon to MC on a Music Show that's nice, she even appeared on Running Man with Yiren and Onda (for support role). There is something to do with them; big potential and lots of attention internationally. Yena will likely be added and I'm curious how that will impact the group next year.

Nature : first, take care more about all members. Since their debut two years ago they never promoted with the same lineup. Members keep getting injured, ill or having other issues so they are missing for an era. Second, I think they can go and stick to the Girls concept, sexy, elegant with some disturbing and horror vibe and alternate with their usual bright and cute songs. Like light and dark. Variety wise they are great (look at their last Fact in Star for example). ENG subs are bonus for international fans but since they gained some attention from Azerbaijan for example it would be nice to provide ENG subs in the future and if they are aiming for a global audience.

Fanatics : the management is different with members in hiatus being allowed to post with the group's account on Instagram and being able to appear on VLive/Youtube, that's a great point. Their choreographies for Sunday and VAVI Girls are awesome. However for their concept it's still a bit confusing. In which direction the label want to lead them ? It seems to be a mix of cute and girl crush ? The next comeback might tell us more about it. They can speak Korean, Japanese, Chinese and English, so basically they can touch a big majority of fans. Thankfully Doah having commercials (especially Etude House) is helping them money-wise. And same as Everglow : more contents about them, not only some VLives. During debut they kinda released many vlogs but stopped.

Rocket Punch : content and ENG subs ? Already perfect, they need to maintaint it. Ketchy are well fed with videos, with shows and with songs. Was Juicy a summer song ? Probably, so I'll better focus on the next comeback to know if they are pursuing a Bouncy-like style or like Bim Bam Bum. Basically they are doing OK at their level.

Saturday : they finally came back with the same lineup as Bbyong after losing and adding many members for the last two years. They are keeping their retro and cute concept. However their label is small and having trouble with money, I hope they can survive long enough and get enough support. They also put ENG subs on their YT videos, great job and I'm thankful. I don't know what they can do more, they even had Kim Jong-min featured in the last MV.

GWSN : they are trying hard releasing many contents with ENG subs, asking fans what they like to see, busking performance (until COVID). Lena carrying hard the team, getting commercials and appearing on shows. However they albums sales keep dropping, they lost the momentum they had predebut and debut.

 

[AstroBaby]

My favourite Everglow song is Adios. Even though it's considered a ripoff of BP, i think it's an improved version of BP's music style after AIIYL, so I don't understand why EG fans don't like it...


Nature:
Please keep the concept like their most recent comeback, Girls. That song and MV is excellent, amazing, *insert Lady Gaga gif*. Since Kpop is so saturated, I think the way for them to establish an identity is to have a theme or storyline, so maybe they can expand a bit more on the psychological horror concept (paranoia might work well in an MV).

However, I've watched a few of their variety, I think their group chemistry needs a little improvement, not sure how that can be done. I am a casual fan of many, but to go to the next step to really stan a group, they have to have good chemistry among the members with a mix of interesting personalities.

I actually really liked Adios more than Bon Bon Chocolat when it first came out. The problem for me w EG songs is that they have no staying power. I'll really like them for a month and then I'll never feel the need to listen to them again which is the same way I've felt about bp songs post-aiiyl so realizing the similarity made my inability to get into them click, but if you like that vibe they have I totally get it.

As for Nature I agree that the relative success of Girls should be noted by the company and taken as a sign that they've found their concept and Paranoia would be a great concept! They could take inspo from the Liar Liar and Russian Roulette mvs but make it more elegant aesthetic-wise.
As for the variety I think the lack chemistry is kinda inevitable given the lineup changes, I think even if more members leave n.ch shouldn't bring in new ones but focus on building a sense of stability among the group/fandom.

 

[AstroBaby]

Rocket Punch : content and ENG subs ? Already perfect, they need to maintaint it. Ketchy are well fed with videos, with shows and with songs. Was Juicy a summer song ? Probably, so I'll better focus on the next comeback to know if they are pursuing a Bouncy-like style or like Bim Bam Bum. Basically they are doing OK at their level.

GWSN : they are trying hard releasing many contents with ENG subs, asking fans what they like to see, busking performance (until COVID). Lena carrying hard the team, getting commercials and appearing on shows. However they albums sales keep dropping, they lost the momentum they had predebut and debut.

Yes! RoPun's content is what made fall in love with the girls and be so passionate about this concept idea for them. You're right that I shouldn't judge their sound too much from Juicy since it's probably more likely to be a one-off summer song and Woolim is generally good at sticking to concept, I think my expectations were a little to high going in bc the same team that did Tag Me made it. As for Bim Bam Bum vs Bouncy idk what Woolim's perspective is since the former sold more but the latter charted slightly higher. I think the general fandom perspective favors my side though so I hope they will listen to it. Idk BBB has just aged so well for me that I really want to hear more songs like it from them also if they plan on adding Chaewon (which they probably do) I think her time in Izone would prep her well to digesting a more elegant vibe like in BBB rather than Bouncy.

Yeah that's the sad thing about small company groups is sometimes they can do seemingly everything right but luck just isn't on their side.

 

[BianTwo]

One of next step for Rocket Punch is a hit who will be remembered by Kpop fans and by the public like Ah-Choo did for Lovelyz. Unless they take a Oh My Girl path and wait 3-4 years, slowly rising until they finally hit something big like NON STOP did. They will likely add Chaewon so that will bring more attention and more fans. For Eunbi nothing is sure.

For less known groups from small label like Saturday, GWSN, Woo!Ah!, Cignature, Red Square, Fanatics, etc, they will probably need either a member becoming more popular to carry the group (Lena, Nana, Bomin and Doah for example for their respective group) or like Momoland have a song who will be rocketed into the top for months.

LOONA, Everglow and Secret Number already had international attention, they only need to be more popular in Korea and their label to handle well the management.

 

[AstroBaby]

It seems that Everglow is going to be moving away from the bp sound in their newest comeback...maybe I'll win

 

[BianTwo]

Rocket Punch : Woolim stop with those plastic pouch, or make them easier to open without ripping it appart or too small to take out the album

 

[AstroBaby]

made a part 2 if anyone's interested!

 

[AstroBaby]

I won!

 

[AstroBaby]

It's funny looking at this post now when everyone's doing a retro concept now except Rocket Punch I guess I was right about it coming back but I didn't guess how quickly it'd be everywhere, although I guess I should have known w how kpop is. I doubt the any of other groups will stick to it though, so I still think would make a good group concept if they put their own spin on it, I mean trop house was already done to death in kpop when gidle released latata and it still blew up so....

 

[BianTwo]

It's going by trend

We had tropical, trap, latino, no singing chorus, shouting chorus

Now retro

 

[Stannie]

n title track from Apink?​

 

[AstroBaby]

Bro...what is happening this wasn't meant to be a prediction thread...just my delusion

 

[frostpuddle]

Bro...what is happening this wasn't meant to be a prediction thread...just my delusion

Please give positive prediction for Bvndit's comeback

 

[MVSica]

Wew May is the month lol. Btw thanks everyone for writing all of your thoughts, I dont usually get into rookies till after the first year usually so the info you wrote about them helps me now that I'm paying more attention