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Because it already debut on the charts and 90% of the time with big groups the first few hours of charting are telling.
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When certain people are constantly in here bitching about something or other, but never in the main thread celebrating the girls, you gotta wonder where their priorities lie. I feel like some people don't care what songs or MVs are produced as long as it gets more views / more charting / more sales than X group. I guess those numbers equal validations of some sort. Most of the sane Onces ditched this thread (and consequently, this forum as well) ages ago, leaving the chart/sales-obsessed people to turn this thread into a huge echo chamber for their negativity - this place turned into a Thrice hangout a while ago. Anyway, I'm off - rather watch Twice live than cry over sales and charting. Peace.
colorpop
StanWell, I didn't check it yet, but given how active your reaction is, I guess it's really fantastic. Nice to hear that.
colorpop
StanDude, there's like FOUR of us here, why are you behaving like this thread is a major threat to ONCE community lmao.
You don't post here anyway, no one does, let us be lol.
Dreamer95
StanWow, so we can't even discuss our faves achievements without being judged by so called talent and music stans. I'd like to live in utopia where sales don't matter but we are in a different reality. Seriously, didn't Gfriend case teach people anything? They were competing with Twice in 2016 now they aren't even TOP5.
Success matters. Less success always means worse quality and less activity. For example, if Twice wasn't successful group, would we see them performing on MAMA and other year end award shows? Nah. That means extra content for all of us. Would we see many interviews and show appearances? Nah. Would we constantly get clowned by other fandoms? Yes
Success matters. Less success always means worse quality and less activity. For example, if Twice wasn't successful group, would we see them performing on MAMA and other year end award shows? Nah. That means extra content for all of us. Would we see many interviews and show appearances? Nah. Would we constantly get clowned by other fandoms? Yes
Dreamer95
StanDefine celebrating. What are you celebrating? Those tragic teaser pics, teaser videos and MVs? Those tragic album packagings? Half assed promotion cycles? Please tell me what are you celebrating.
Besides, I constantly check out main thread. You guys do nothing there but share tweets from insta posts. I do have a twitter and I followed Misayeon, SK and all other Twice fanbars, I don't get why are you sharing it in thethread, for what purpose.
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I hope after this people can put the talk of last chance and make or break away...
Like I said before this was going to happen. That time has already passed and I'm going to bet the stagnant or likely lower album sales today and this week will further drum home that point.
Jyp ignored Twice's main markets and fans and abandoned the music they were known for only to chase fads, hop trends and hope for western attention.
He didn't even bother promoting in the west is the worst part so no only did he essentially obliterate their domestic hype, but also diminished their local fanbases in Japan and Korea through scummy and negligent promotion and a constant tsunami of low quality releases and for what? Basically no noticeable change in western success or fandom size....yeah.
He still doesn't have any real promotion lined up for this comeback but one or two token TV spots for some members. Nothing in Japan, western markets, etc you can't even buy the album in Japan until next week and in the US early December...such a waste
Like I said before this was going to happen. That time has already passed and I'm going to bet the stagnant or likely lower album sales today and this week will further drum home that point.
Jyp ignored Twice's main markets and fans and abandoned the music they were known for only to chase fads, hop trends and hope for western attention.
He didn't even bother promoting in the west is the worst part so no only did he essentially obliterate their domestic hype, but also diminished their local fanbases in Japan and Korea through scummy and negligent promotion and a constant tsunami of low quality releases and for what? Basically no noticeable change in western success or fandom size....yeah.
He still doesn't have any real promotion lined up for this comeback but one or two token TV spots for some members. Nothing in Japan, western markets, etc you can't even buy the album in Japan until next week and in the US early December...such a waste
NewUser
StanThis thread is in the achievements sections so talking about the issues/trends with sales and charting in this thread makes more sense than anything. Opinions on the songs and its achievements is pretty much mutually exclusive, for me anyhow.
Looking at the initial charting it really shows how much damage FS and M&M back to back did for Twice in SK. I wasn't expecting a big start and knew it'd have to be a grower if it was going to hit but it's starting off at a much lower base than I was expecting. Will need to depend on promotions which is an odd feeling.
Also not sure if Misa is just not tweeting about it but I found it odd they pushed tiktok quite a bit for M&M with an overtly complicated choreo, but for ICSM which actually has a move that has the potential to be pretty viral (hip move) I don't think I've seen them start a challenge?
It's one of those things that you don't want to say i told you so, but the signs have been there for months with the loss of domestic relevance and the fandom slowly falling away. As much as people want to complain about it we were talking about it months ago and it has come to fruition, we weren't just slagging off JYPE for the sake of it. They were real issues and it's now being reflected in numbers for all to see.
Looking at the initial charting it really shows how much damage FS and M&M back to back did for Twice in SK. I wasn't expecting a big start and knew it'd have to be a grower if it was going to hit but it's starting off at a much lower base than I was expecting. Will need to depend on promotions which is an odd feeling.
Also not sure if Misa is just not tweeting about it but I found it odd they pushed tiktok quite a bit for M&M with an overtly complicated choreo, but for ICSM which actually has a move that has the potential to be pretty viral (hip move) I don't think I've seen them start a challenge?
It's one of those things that you don't want to say i told you so, but the signs have been there for months with the loss of domestic relevance and the fandom slowly falling away. As much as people want to complain about it we were talking about it months ago and it has come to fruition, we weren't just slagging off JYPE for the sake of it. They were real issues and it's now being reflected in numbers for all to see.
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oldtimer
NuguAnyone know how the song is doing chartwise?
Agree with most of the sentiments here about jype. They don’t know how to manage successful groups and Twice was lucky that they skyrocketed that high in their career.
And regarding sales, the fact that we didn’t get preorder news is very telling. Saw some people saying on twitter that we don’t usually get one and m&m was a special case but if the sales did wonders i’m pretty sure it’s gonna be media played to death.
Agree with most of the sentiments here about jype. They don’t know how to manage successful groups and Twice was lucky that they skyrocketed that high in their career.
And regarding sales, the fact that we didn’t get preorder news is very telling. Saw some people saying on twitter that we don’t usually get one and m&m was a special case but if the sales did wonders i’m pretty sure it’s gonna be media played to death.
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Number 2 on Genie, but with slow/unique listeners. Took about 8 hours to hit 100k and More and More did it in about half that time.
It also failed to enter the Melon top 5 in the old system. Its rising steadily on Flo and Melon 24hits though i expect that to stabilise in the top 5 to 10 rather than top 3....which is kinda bad considering their main competition is barely over 500k ULs.
Number 1 on Bugs.
colorpop
StanI don't really get how new melon system works, but since first 24h passed and ICSM started to lose positions is it safe to say that TWICE peaked at Melon #13? Or it should grow more?
I'm not talking about promotion effect, just the way new system counts unique listeners.
I'm not talking about promotion effect, just the way new system counts unique listeners.
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It still pulls UL's in the same way so that means at I think 12 noon in Korea the 24 hr cycle on the chart begins again. So you usually in that time between 12-6pm a song being most vulnerable to dropping UL's.
If they are now going - on Melon that means they are likely dropping listeners in, what is now, a new 24 hour cycle and less listeners means they are going to be dropping on the 24h until it either stabilizes or somehow gains more UL's. Which is unlikely since promotion has never helped a Twice song since Signal. It is what it is. Where ever it lands today likely wont be where it stabilises unless something changes it's going to fall further.
In case anyone doesn't know it had only 202k listeners at the daily reset. Yeah.
On topic, even with how 'pessimistic' this thread is accused of being I'm not sure even we could have predicted how enormous the damage was to Tice following More and More and all the shit from jyp that followed. Even the YT was down and the sales have reduced by about 170,000 today so far and not looking like they'll go much higher for D1.
colorpop
StanWait what? So you are basically saying that first day UL number is 202k? M&M had 581k, how is it even possible?
oldtimer
NuguIt is what it is. I’ve lurked on this thread for a while and people made some points on how fans are eventually gonna get tired of how they’re being treated. Of the multiple merch/album releases with almost no breathing room. We just have to accept that it’s not doing well. I think most of us even expected this but still hoped for the best. Things can still turn around tho as it’s only been a day.
In my honest opinion tho, musicwise I definitely like EWO compared to M&M. And I Can’t Stop Me is definitely a better song than M&M. Even with the not so stellar first day results tho, I like the music so that’s a win for me. I can say that I’ll keep supporting them since I like this musical direction.
In my honest opinion tho, musicwise I definitely like EWO compared to M&M. And I Can’t Stop Me is definitely a better song than M&M. Even with the not so stellar first day results tho, I like the music so that’s a win for me. I can say that I’ll keep supporting them since I like this musical direction.
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Yeah. I think a few reasons.
Recently Melon rolled out an updated app version, where previously it still had the 'old system' so you could stream you faves up to the top 10 and since the overwhelming majority of Melon users are on app the new system wasn't really in place until a couple weeks ago when they rolled out the new update. So anyone who updated now only see's the 24h chart even on mobile.
So now more than ever hype and promotion is paramount. Jyp really for reasons only known to him chose to promote Better and the 5 year stuff above EWO and in Korea they had 0 pre hype or promo build up....
Joe nobody on the streets of Seoul doesn't follow Twice on Twitter and IG so without proper, real promotion the regular Melon user doesn't really know they are coming back and the 24h system wont push you into their face like the old system.
This is why now more than ever building up a groups brand is so important and that's something jyp has completely neglected. He refuses to do pre-release songs, refuses to promote individually, refuses to stay active between comebacks, etc so in reality no one knows or gives a shit that Twice are back and even if they do and listen the song is good, but it's being improperly pushed as a retro song like WWD, Dynamite, SSAK3, etc when it's not a retro song....Synthwave isn't popular in Korea at all...it's been massively popular in the west for a while, but when was the last time a synthwave or synth pop song took over Melon?
Too much focus on chasing popular trends outside of their core markets have led to unavoidable decline in those markets.
TLDR Old system now gone from Melon app, lack of promo and general low interest in Twice right now are my guesses
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Eye's Wide Open D1 Hanteo final numers. 107,345
Day 1 comparison graph.
Day 1 comparison graph.
NewUser
Stanre first 24 hour UL's, Lovesick Girl got 290k and BP usually get 800k.
It's just a result of the new system and Twice barely had any anticipation/hype going into this comeback for it to be proportionally bigger than normal.
The initial charting doesn't look too promising (worse than FS's on every chart not just Melon) but will need to see what promotions do.
Feels like the damage has been done with the GP and fandom in SK like it has visibly been in Japan for the last year. The Korean side just finally caught up. If Twice lose sales which they most probably have done any significant drop will only be from SK/Japan.
JYPE have all the numbers and must have seen what was happening but didn't attempt to make it right. What can you say.
It's just a result of the new system and Twice barely had any anticipation/hype going into this comeback for it to be proportionally bigger than normal.
The initial charting doesn't look too promising (worse than FS's on every chart not just Melon) but will need to see what promotions do.
Feels like the damage has been done with the GP and fandom in SK like it has visibly been in Japan for the last year. The Korean side just finally caught up. If Twice lose sales which they most probably have done any significant drop will only be from SK/Japan.
JYPE have all the numbers and must have seen what was happening but didn't attempt to make it right. What can you say.
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Jyp is an egomaniac completely incapable of taking any form of responsibility.
He and his company have run Twice into the ground. It's just a reality. His bizarre fucked up division system that no other company uses, his lack of promoting individual members, terrible attempt at building hype and just the low effort they put into everything.
I'm gonna say something that some once might think is a bit awful, but at the same time I think it's true and think it's reflecting reality currently. Feel free to ignore it.
But in the last 2 years as times have changed in kpop so too have things for Twice but not for the better. As more eyes, and subsequently more money, has been coming into the genre since probably late 2017 other companies have took that as an indication to invest more. Bigger budgets, better videos, higher production physicals, more promotion, etc, etc. For Jyp it has been the opposite, he's used this as an opportunity to swell his companies coffers only spending when it's on new groups or projects he later abandons or ignores.
Twice look and feel cheap. That's it, they just do. Often terrible cheap clothes, poor hair and make up. Just dreadful styling in general. Their videos look like they should be on a debuting nugu from a small, poor company and their so scammy feeling lately. Albums with no member cards in Japan, old merch sets being sold as new, album duplicates, slow tour refunds, old Mnek songs, plagiarism scandals, and so on. They feel like a cheaper, smaller group not from the so called big 3 and it was only a matter of time before their results began to reflect that too.
He and his company have run Twice into the ground. It's just a reality. His bizarre fucked up division system that no other company uses, his lack of promoting individual members, terrible attempt at building hype and just the low effort they put into everything.
I'm gonna say something that some once might think is a bit awful, but at the same time I think it's true and think it's reflecting reality currently. Feel free to ignore it.
But in the last 2 years as times have changed in kpop so too have things for Twice but not for the better. As more eyes, and subsequently more money, has been coming into the genre since probably late 2017 other companies have took that as an indication to invest more. Bigger budgets, better videos, higher production physicals, more promotion, etc, etc. For Jyp it has been the opposite, he's used this as an opportunity to swell his companies coffers only spending when it's on new groups or projects he later abandons or ignores.
Twice look and feel cheap. That's it, they just do. Often terrible cheap clothes, poor hair and make up. Just dreadful styling in general. Their videos look like they should be on a debuting nugu from a small, poor company and their so scammy feeling lately. Albums with no member cards in Japan, old merch sets being sold as new, album duplicates, slow tour refunds, old Mnek songs, plagiarism scandals, and so on. They feel like a cheaper, smaller group not from the so called big 3 and it was only a matter of time before their results began to reflect that too.
NewUser
StanAt the end of the day it comes down to JYPE not being built to handle a group as big as Twice. YG already had a lot of success across the globe with Big Bang and Psy. SM had SNSD, TVXQ, Boa, Suju etc.
Before Twice came along all the JYPE had for global markets is 2PM in Japan (where they weren't as big as SM or YG's stars) and Rain in pan-asia. Rain left near his peak and 2PM quickly fell off a cliff.
Then Twice come along, blow up in SK AND Japan in the space of 1 year. From then on just exponential growth in Japan/SK whilst growing throughout Asia. Then the international market opens where JYPE has no connections like SM/YG but Twice were already established as one of the biggest names in kpop. At that point it's about adapting for the market conditions and pushing them on to the next step and...we get the same promotional style we got from Twice a year into their debut? The lack of adaptability and self-awareness from JYPE is genuinely comical.
It's crazy to me how Bang PD was partnered with JYP in their formative years and even went to the US together but one has such a better grasp of markets. I know JYP doesn't run JYPE but he clearly has a massive amount of input yet you compare how Bang PD molded BTS (their fans played a massive part but Bang PD did his job) to how JYPE have attempted to put Twice on that next level and it's night and day.
Even looking at how they have handled Itzy so far - their biggest song is their debut song which came from being Twice's sisters and debut hype. Since then they haven't kicked on and they had multiple advantages compared to Twice. They came into a market that had already grown massively, came off the back off Twice (at the start of 2019 when Twice were still comfortably the biggest GG in the country) which gave them immediate success in SK, Japan and the world. Were built for more worldwide success with only having 5 members, having English speaking members, girl crush concept etc. Yet groups like Loona and Everglow don't seem too far from them internationally and G-Idle are arguably more relevant in SK.
Watch the SM new GG come in and handle Itzy with ease because I can definitely see it. And the difference between Twice v RV (with a load of SM stans and Sones that did not like Twice) and Itzy v SM NGG is the Twice members just had the It factor. It's why even though they had their debut when JYPE were at their worst and least relevant, members routinely blew up, went viral and got Twice and JYPE as big as they did. Personally I want JYPE to massively regret how they handled Twice so after the members are off and doing their own thing I have no issue with all JYPE groups flopping and falling out of the big three. They had a group in Twice that should have been at the forefront of it all and seeing all these BP fans/antis with the "flop" narrative thinking they somehow played a part just shows what a self-centered bunch they are. JYPE issues have been clear to see for a long time.
JYPE's globalisation by localisation makes sense because they cannot handle global groups that require more thinking and know how. Legitimately the most incompetent and small-time big three label by a distance.
Before Twice came along all the JYPE had for global markets is 2PM in Japan (where they weren't as big as SM or YG's stars) and Rain in pan-asia. Rain left near his peak and 2PM quickly fell off a cliff.
Then Twice come along, blow up in SK AND Japan in the space of 1 year. From then on just exponential growth in Japan/SK whilst growing throughout Asia. Then the international market opens where JYPE has no connections like SM/YG but Twice were already established as one of the biggest names in kpop. At that point it's about adapting for the market conditions and pushing them on to the next step and...we get the same promotional style we got from Twice a year into their debut? The lack of adaptability and self-awareness from JYPE is genuinely comical.
It's crazy to me how Bang PD was partnered with JYP in their formative years and even went to the US together but one has such a better grasp of markets. I know JYP doesn't run JYPE but he clearly has a massive amount of input yet you compare how Bang PD molded BTS (their fans played a massive part but Bang PD did his job) to how JYPE have attempted to put Twice on that next level and it's night and day.
Even looking at how they have handled Itzy so far - their biggest song is their debut song which came from being Twice's sisters and debut hype. Since then they haven't kicked on and they had multiple advantages compared to Twice. They came into a market that had already grown massively, came off the back off Twice (at the start of 2019 when Twice were still comfortably the biggest GG in the country) which gave them immediate success in SK, Japan and the world. Were built for more worldwide success with only having 5 members, having English speaking members, girl crush concept etc. Yet groups like Loona and Everglow don't seem too far from them internationally and G-Idle are arguably more relevant in SK.
Watch the SM new GG come in and handle Itzy with ease because I can definitely see it. And the difference between Twice v RV (with a load of SM stans and Sones that did not like Twice) and Itzy v SM NGG is the Twice members just had the It factor. It's why even though they had their debut when JYPE were at their worst and least relevant, members routinely blew up, went viral and got Twice and JYPE as big as they did. Personally I want JYPE to massively regret how they handled Twice so after the members are off and doing their own thing I have no issue with all JYPE groups flopping and falling out of the big three. They had a group in Twice that should have been at the forefront of it all and seeing all these BP fans/antis with the "flop" narrative thinking they somehow played a part just shows what a self-centered bunch they are. JYPE issues have been clear to see for a long time.
JYPE's globalisation by localisation makes sense because they cannot handle global groups that require more thinking and know how. Legitimately the most incompetent and small-time big three label by a distance.
colorpop
StanI think you can't really blame lack of promotion only, when ICSM is below MAMAMOO pre-release track.
Yes, to my taste song is definitely not a hit material, but the way it flopping is too severe. I think the main factor here is TWICE complete disappearance from public eye, i.e. no activities in between eras, almost zero new CF contracts (which is still to me one of the weirdest things in TWICE mismanagement), zero personal projects for members. Even Red Velvet had more chances to save their career from several misses in a row with Psycho, because they were visible to public all the time and
Anyway, at this point I just hope to enjoy next title track and MV. Album is pretty solid.
Yes, to my taste song is definitely not a hit material, but the way it flopping is too severe. I think the main factor here is TWICE complete disappearance from public eye, i.e. no activities in between eras, almost zero new CF contracts (which is still to me one of the weirdest things in TWICE mismanagement), zero personal projects for members. Even Red Velvet had more chances to save their career from several misses in a row with Psycho, because they were visible to public all the time and
ofc the song itself was absolutely great
Anyway, at this point I just hope to enjoy next title track and MV. Album is pretty solid.
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