Victor Afonso
LurkerI don't understand, did you see the part of the video I mentioned?
I want an explanation if Ren is gay, why Baekho asked a question about girls....it's not simple ?
This is not an indication that he likes women ?
sooat
StanI never really believed that karina could be a lesbian, for me all the aespa girls are straight, there might me something about ningning...
after snsd I think they are the most straight group in sm
certain fans get really offended when someone thinks an idol/actor could be gay but they are the first ones to ship members from the same group
after snsd I think they are the most straight group in sm
certain fans get really offended when someone thinks an idol/actor could be gay but they are the first ones to ship members from the same group
My take is that "not assuming" takes the guise of equality and people we say "don't assume they're gay, bi, or straight" but all that really amounts to is people dog piling on queer fans who identify with idols, while nobody cares about the thousands of heteronormative posts made about these people everyday. It's an unavoidable reality that many idols are gay, statistically impossible for there not to be many gay idols. There's a lot of reasons why queer people would be more attracted to that field than average, and there's even reasons why a company might see a potenital idol being gay as a good thing (ie no dating scandals, dispatch, etc, although this seems to be changing as rabid sasaengs seem increasingly willing to out people in revenge and they don't abide by whatever journalistic standard Dispatch sets.) Enforcing this no-assumption rule quickly becomes just enforcing heterosexuality onto all idols when it's unreasonable to believe they're all straight.
At the same time, I think people are a little too comfy talking about how gay xyz idol is on major social media platforms. I don't think genuine speculation or anything like that should be on social media that idols themselves pubicly use. Small forums like this, private discords, etc. just feels like humans doing what humans will do regardless, but at least in places like this, OH server, etc. idols aren't likely to come across it and companies aren't likely to see it as all that brand damaging.
I also think it's kind of a double standard pushed onto queer fans while other things that are way more invasive aren't complained about or contained anywhere near as much. Shipping, "sasaeng rumors", thirst posting, deepfake porn, fanfiction, etc. also all exists on major social media platforms too. I'm personally fine with those things existing too (not deepfake porn, but that should be obvious, and needs to be outlawed federally in all countries to be dealt with) but they need to be in less public channels and not on platforms that idols use. You'll never eliminate these behaviors and they're pretty core to the kpop experience for many people anyway, but they can absolutely be very damaging for idols to see when they search up their name and need to be encouraged to be placed into non-major platform fandom spaces.
And as for Karina... she seems like a good SM idol in that she just portrays a very sweet classical idol persona. I don't think she acts like that when the cameras aren't rolling because why would she? I'm honestly surprised people were so convinced of her being queer (and she could just be bi anyway lmao) when I don't feel like I've ever seen anything genuinely compelling in any direction for her, besides her literally getting caught dating a man. With how much people are freaking out you'd think it was Seola or Moonbyul lmao
sooat
Stan
EphemeralGayz
StanWe love a transcontinental reach.I was reading a pann article and this comment...
for context: someone above mentioned that gong yoo and lee dong wook are cousins
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I have a question for everyone:
The current debate on Kpop twitter is that there is no such thing as “Queerbaiting” in Kpop. Only fictional characters can queerbait, real people can’t.
They are arguing it’s black or white with idols. If you think an idol is “queerbaiting” they either are 100% gay/lgbt or you are stupid and have bad gaydar and are interpreting their stuff wrong.
… to be honest I kind of disagree with this argument. Maybe “fanservice” is a better word? But I feel like Queerbaiting 100% exists in Kpop.
Kpop idols do play a fictional character to some extent, you’d have to be naive to think the person you see in front of the camera is 100% the person they are off camera. Idols are playing a role. That picture of an idol you see in your head can possibly not be real. And that idol role that person has to play can very well include pretending to be a little fruity on camera for the fans. It’s all fanservice.
Are there real lgbt people in Kpop? Yes, just look at this thread. But I think it’s naive to think an Kpop idol has never pretended to be lgbt/have lgbt moments with their members to appeal to fans.
The current debate on Kpop twitter is that there is no such thing as “Queerbaiting” in Kpop. Only fictional characters can queerbait, real people can’t.
They are arguing it’s black or white with idols. If you think an idol is “queerbaiting” they either are 100% gay/lgbt or you are stupid and have bad gaydar and are interpreting their stuff wrong.
… to be honest I kind of disagree with this argument. Maybe “fanservice” is a better word? But I feel like Queerbaiting 100% exists in Kpop.
Kpop idols do play a fictional character to some extent, you’d have to be naive to think the person you see in front of the camera is 100% the person they are off camera. Idols are playing a role. That picture of an idol you see in your head can possibly not be real. And that idol role that person has to play can very well include pretending to be a little fruity on camera for the fans. It’s all fanservice.
Are there real lgbt people in Kpop? Yes, just look at this thread. But I think it’s naive to think an Kpop idol has never pretended to be lgbt/have lgbt moments with their members to appeal to fans.
I think by definition using the term queerbaiting for kpop doesn't quite fit. You're absolutely correct that so much of kpop is fictional and personas being played, but they also aren't career actors and many idols likely portray very genuine versions of themselves. Nobody will be on all the time anyway, so kpop is never fully fictional, nor is it ever totally genuine. I also think it's used to liberally here because queerbaiting is supposed to be indirect and hinted, but kpop definitely goes beyond just "hinting" at it all the time lmao. What is happening here really needs it's own term, and I feel like I've heard one before but can't place it. I also think insistence upon using the term often becomes muddied with bisexual erasure and further bogs down these sorts of discussions.
My policy is that demanding a public labeling of anyone's sexuality or gender identity is deeply invasive and often only harms the perception of LGBT issues in the mainstream. Consider reading this interview by Elly Jackson, otherwise known as La Roux, who's essentially been a paragon of queer and especially lesbian pop music fandom for decades at this point. The things she says here are easy to understand, but I think they often get lost in online discourse when you stop thinking about people as people, and more as just an image they're presenting. At the end of the day, no celebrity is solely their image-- they are also an individual and should not be held to standards we hold completely fictional media.
La Roux: ‘The gay community are dying for you to label yourself’
Elly Jackson, back as La Roux after a six-year hiatus, talks to Alexandra Pollard about falling out with her record label, why she’ll never write another ‘Bulletproof’ and the difficulty of navigating her sexuality in public
www.independent.co.uk
Of course kpop has a history of fetishizing gayness to the point it's baked into the culture of fanservice, it's not purely aesthetic. There are some groups who will go so hard on the fanservice aspect that it practically becomes a caricature (Ateez absolutely had an era of doing this) and there are some companies who clearly actively instruct their idols to portray queer fanservice (All the produce groups had this vibe, and SM is infamous for creating company endorsed ships-- to the point where they've cycled through intentional NCT ships so much that Mark has been in like 5 already lmao). This creates an issue where the boundary of "actor portraying queerness" and "real human celebrity existing on camera" becomes even blurrier.
I think we really just need a new term for this. Jpop has been doing this even longer so I wonder if there might be a preexisting japanese term?
sweetessence
ᥫ᭡Does anyone who was part of the Onehallyu gay and lesbian thread, respectively, know where most relocated other than here?
If there's a Discord, can you send me the link?
If there's a Discord, can you send me the link?
EphemeralGayz
StanDoes Kim Soo Hyun have any gay rumors?
They're still active in the OH Events discord, I only ever lurk in there for a couple minutes every couple weeks so I think it'd be weird for me to give you the invite since it's sort of a private-ish server now I guess. You should be able to find an invite near the end of OH thread iirc?
sweetessence
ᥫ᭡Can you link me to the thread? Or message me an invite. I used to be very active in the gay and lesbian threads until like December.
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ten.lve
Lurkerhello everyone, OH refugee here!
i've finally decided to create an account on here after lurking this thread for a couple of weeks. thankfully this thread was created here on hallyu after OH closed.
i've had a couple posts in the gay thread over there over the past two years when i was online and active. some of you all might've seen me pop in from time to time over there once in a while. i mainly posted my own theories and speculations on idols and queer-coded kpop songs, most of which were about ten from nct/wayv but i also did other boy groups as well.
i've finally decided to create an account on here after lurking this thread for a couple of weeks. thankfully this thread was created here on hallyu after OH closed.
i've had a couple posts in the gay thread over there over the past two years when i was online and active. some of you all might've seen me pop in from time to time over there once in a while. i mainly posted my own theories and speculations on idols and queer-coded kpop songs, most of which were about ten from nct/wayv but i also did other boy groups as well.
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There's links to the archives of both the gay and lesbian thread at the bottom of the OP for this thread! Maybe somebody else here might be able to invite you if they're active on there otherwise.
Welcome! I hope you stick around here to chat with us
EphemeralGayz
StanWelcome!
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I need to rant for a minute:
People need to start minding their business a bit and taking a chill pill when it comes to idol’s sexualities sometimes
On Kpop twitter, everyone is in a fistfight right now over The Boyz Kevin and Jacob’s latest Tiktok:
- People started calling them gay cause of the video.
- This then started a wave of people arguing they aren’t gay.
- This then started a wave of people fighting the people calling them straight because “obviously they are gay and y’all are delusional”.
I think this is the first time I’ve seen people get into a fight with someone else because they called an idol straight???
I feel like arguing an idol’s sexuality on something as public as twitter is already pretty risky.
Yes some idols might really be gay, but just because you are gay and you are projecting that an idol you like is gay doesn’t mean you have the right to try to fistfight someone who disagrees with you. (Just like if you’re straight and you think an idol is straight you shouldn’t get too offended and fight someone who thinks they’re fruity).
Also being Bi, Pan, or Ace is a thing as well?
Moral of the story: Unless an idol publicly states their sexuality, it is a sensitive topic and I just want to say I appreciate all of you on this forum and how calm and levelheaded everyone is when it comes to discussing this
People need to start minding their business a bit and taking a chill pill when it comes to idol’s sexualities sometimes
On Kpop twitter, everyone is in a fistfight right now over The Boyz Kevin and Jacob’s latest Tiktok:
- People started calling them gay cause of the video.
- This then started a wave of people arguing they aren’t gay.
- This then started a wave of people fighting the people calling them straight because “obviously they are gay and y’all are delusional”.
I think this is the first time I’ve seen people get into a fight with someone else because they called an idol straight???
I feel like arguing an idol’s sexuality on something as public as twitter is already pretty risky.
Yes some idols might really be gay, but just because you are gay and you are projecting that an idol you like is gay doesn’t mean you have the right to try to fistfight someone who disagrees with you. (Just like if you’re straight and you think an idol is straight you shouldn’t get too offended and fight someone who thinks they’re fruity).
Also being Bi, Pan, or Ace is a thing as well?
Moral of the story: Unless an idol publicly states their sexuality, it is a sensitive topic and I just want to say I appreciate all of you on this forum and how calm and levelheaded everyone is when it comes to discussing this
I need to rant for a minute:
People need to start minding their business a bit and taking a chill pill when it comes to idol’s sexualities sometimes
On Kpop twitter, everyone is in a fistfight right now over The Boyz Kevin and Jacob’s latest Tiktok:
- People started calling them gay cause of the video.
- This then started a wave of people arguing they aren’t gay.
- This then started a wave of people fighting the people calling them straight because “obviously they are gay and y’all are delusional”.
I think this is the first time I’ve seen people get into a fight with someone else because they called an idol straight???
I feel like arguing an idol’s sexuality on something as public as twitter is already pretty risky.
Yes some idols might really be gay, but just because you are gay and you are projecting that an idol you like is gay doesn’t mean you have the right to try to fistfight someone who disagrees with you. (Just like if you’re straight and you think an idol is straight you shouldn’t get too offended and fight someone who thinks they’re fruity).
Also being Bi, Pan, or Ace is a thing as well?
Moral of the story: Unless an idol publicly states their sexuality, it is a sensitive topic and I just want to say I appreciate all of you on this forum and how calm and levelheaded everyone is when it comes to discussing this
Getting into heated debates about this is so silly and invasive. Thinking about this as more than a couple dudes filming a cute tiktok is silly because at the end of the day it's just two guys dancing and having fun for 30 seconds. Its not that serious.
Plenty of straight guys post videos like this it's so innocuous, but some kpop fans are just so deep in the fujoshi hole that they get sort of convinced of higher gay boy truths or whatever when really you don't know these people chill out and treat them like real people for a second.
But anyway this is such a cute tiktok and it looks like it was really fun to film. Nothing to get into an online brawl over and ruin this nice little moment for them.
sooat
Stanwas it here or on OH that someone mentioned byeon woo seok? I remember seeing it, because I went to search up his name, it was something about his likes/posts on insta being sus before his fame
EphemeralGayz
StanI wanna say the of OH, but I want the tea too.
