Watanabe Junnosuke in 2014 (Part 2)
Free from Tsubasa Records, onto the founding of BiSH2021.09.17 20:00
Welcome to another installment of our series digging into various aspects of the idol scene of the 2010s. Continuing on from the previous installment, we are focusing on music producer Watanabe Junnosuke, representative director of WACK Music Production. We followed the timeline up to the disbandment of gen 1 BiS at Yokohama Arena in Kanagawa, but in this second article, we pay particular attention to the second half of 2014 and find out what Watanabe was thinking in establishing WACK and forming BiSH, who have climbed to the top of today's idol scene. We center the narrative around stories from the man himself and provide supporting commentary from close company WACK sound producer Matukuma Kenta, OTOTOY editor-in-chief Iida Jin'ichiro, and BiSH member Cent Chihiro Chittiii to reflect on this turning point in idol history.
Interview, text/Onoda Mamoru
Translation/Lurkette
BiS was untouchable in the company
Watanabe Junnosuke decided to disband BiS at the end of 2013, and things progressed quickly from there. As he was making preparations for BiS' dissolution, he was also making preparations to start his own company. He says he still intended to stay with his employer, Tsubasa Records, but he says he was asked to leave: "If you're going to do whatever the hell you want, isn't it better if you just leave?"
Watanabe Junnosuke
"BiS had become untouchable within the company. We did weird things and we were criticized for it, but our ticket sales were through the roof. The corporate reaction was something along the lines of, 'Junnosuke is out of his mind with the things he says, but we have to let him say it.' It felt like a zit about to pop" (Watanabe).
Tsubasa Records was a one man operation when Watanabe worked there. President Yoshinaga Tatsuyo was respected by all for his vitality and insight, but Watanabe was the first in the company outside of Yoshinaga to obtain a major label contract. As such, the plan he came up with was almost completely different from the company's.
"Tsubasa Records itself is extremely venture-driven, so there were others in the company who were working independently in different sectors. That constitution might be why there wasn't ever any strong opposition to what I was doing. Even at the end, there wasn't anything we fought over, and it was a completely amicable split" (Watanabe).
What was unique about BiS' final concert was the clear fates of the members. Pour Lui was approached by the agency Just Pro, part of the Up-Front conglomerate, and Watanabe told her that she was free to decide whether to follow him or not. As she was a Hello!Pro fan from the start, she chose Just Pro, as she felt it was a once in a lifetime opportunity. First Summer Uika and Hirano Nozomi were slated to form a new idol group, BILLIE IDLE, with designer NIGO. Koshoji Megumi was joining Maison book girl, managed by ekoms. Kamiya Saki ended up as the only one to stick with Watanabe.
Watanabe originally planned on starting a company together with BiS collaborator and sound producer Matsukuma Kenta, but those plans went unfulfilled. Watanabe jokes and says, "He went and made a company on his own! He was supposed to be president and I would be the EVP, but he fully blew me off," but Matsukuma refutes this story.
Matsukuma Kenta
"That's where our perspectives on the situation differ. I had been a freelancer from the beginning, and me registering SCRAMBLES was purely a tax thing. I didn't think it mattered how many 'companies' I made. We for sure talked about making one together, but it was never anything substantial, never concrete details about what it would look like or how much I would have to do with it. Still, I did invest in WACK and I'm on their roster as an artist, too, so my feeling is that we did build it together like we planned (laughs).
Still, well, the result is that I feel good with things now, you know? We both support each other when we're on the verge of breaking down, and our personalities and ways of doing things are completely different, so I can't imagine that things would go this smoothly if we worked together in the same capacity. I wonder if it's because we're working as different companies that we can still get the job done together with no hurt feelings" (Matsukuma).
I wanted to create a Watanabe signature, so I started BiSH
In any case, Watanabe embarked down a path of self-reliance. The disbandment of BiS happened on July 8, 2014, and he registered WACK as a legal entity on August 3 of the same year. So then, where would he start in this new company he created? This seems like this vision would be the most important factor in starting a business, but Watanabe states nonchalantly, "I wasn't really thinking of anything in particular."
Watanabe Junnosuke in 2014 (Photo by sotobayashi kenta)
"I hadn't even conceived of BiSH back then. BiS broke up in July, but the only thing I had figured out at that point was producing BILLIE IDLE, which NIGO started. I was in charge of their creative direction, like a production manager or something. I didn't touch the actual management side, though, so the more complex work was virtually non-existent for me. At the same time, I was part of the band This is not a business, because I'm the kind of guy who always wanted to be in a band.
To tell you the truth, by the time BiS broke up, I was sick and tired of idol groups. It was just such a bother. The members were annoying about different things, and I had to lend a hand with polaroid events, stuff like that. Then, my band got signed to Crown for a major debut, and we wanted to do a tour with just strings (*guitar & bass, etc.). We sold t-shirts and other merch, so I guess I didn't have much issue with how to make a living" (Watanabe).
There are likely many people who look at WACK in 2021 with its many groups and think that it's a burgeoning idol army with a lot of momentum, but in 2014, that would have been absolutely appalling to Watanabe. He wanted to create a business that stayed as far away from idols as he could, but that plan crumbled all too quickly.
"In the end, BiS is why I felt self-important enough to start out on my own, but when I went independent and the BiS banner came down, I was forced into a much more vulnerable position. In the summer of 2014, Pla2me (unit comprised of former BiS member Kamiya Saki and forember Izunkoneko member Mizuta Mari, later known as POP/GANG PARADE) played at Tokyo Idol Festival, but I still had this strange inferiority complex. It just felt weird. That's why, by the end of 2014, I thought, 'I have to do something like BiS one more time to feel important again' (laughs). And what I started was BiSH" (Watanabe).
Was he really just acting out of pride? It's incredibly hard to believe that he would go back to managing the idols he so hated just because of something like that. Was there really no other reason? When I pressed him on this issue, he chose his words carefully as he spoke.
"It definitely might be misleading to say I wanted to be proud of myself. It might be more accurate to say that I did not actually have any sense of pride in myself. This is not a business was directed more towards the other members, and Pla2me was definitely a product of what those two wanted to do. What I mean is that there wasn't any signature Watanabe in WACK. That's just such a strange thing to say, though, you know? There was lots of Watanabe in what I did before I went out on my own, but it completely disappeared when I started my own company. Normally, someone starts a company and does whatever they want to do. To sum it up, there wasn't any big thing that I could be like, 'This is what I'm doing!' I wanted to make something like that, and that's a big part of why I started BiSH" (Watanabe).
My role is to do things that people say are uncool
At the end of 2014, for one reason or another Watanabe still was invited and attended the Tsubasa Records new year's party despite having already resigned. For Tsubasa Records President Yoshinaga, it might have been his intention to celebrate the independent endeavors of a beloved former employee, but Matsukuma also made an appearance at the party. It was there that Watanabe made up his mind and asked Matuskuma, "I want to do BiS one more time, will you help me?" to which Matsukuma responded, "I've been waiting for you to ask." The two steadily advanced on this plan starting that night."He had just gone independent, and so there were many situations where he had to politely defer to other people for business dealings, and ultimately that meant that he wasn't able to bring out his own flavor in anything. I told him that, too, but he surely would have felt it even if I hadn't said anything to him. Watanabe has masterful judgment, to the extent that even now when he has auditions, the people he chooses are surprising. His methods are really incredible; he gives the members autonomy, which in turn gives them confidence, which awakens their potential. That's why, when he told me he was going to start BiS one more time, I remember feeling excited about the future the two of us would make" (Matsukuma).
"Back then, aside from Matsukuma, no one thought highly of the idea, like, 'BiS ended on a high note, so what do you mean you're doing it again? That's so lame.' Well, that response on the contrary made me think that it would be a success. Even bearing in mind that I'm a contrarian, I do believe in going down the road less traveled. The reaction on Twitter was actually amazing, and 'BiSH' was #1 on Yahoo! trends. I really thought it would take off because of that. I think that my role from the start is to do things that people say are uncool, so when everyone actually said it was lame, that made me all the more confident" (Watanabe).
During this time, there was one additional person that Watanabe found worthy of his trust enough to consult on the idea: then-OTOTOY editor in chief Iida Jin'ichiro, who also happened to be present for the formation of BiS in 2010. This time, however, the two found themselves in disagreement. I first asked Watanabe for his take on the situation.
"At first, the OTOTOY editor gave a very harsh response when I spoke to him about it, like, 'Wow, I don't know how that would go.' But I still landed interviews and gave a pushy presentation, and when I explained I would probably name the group BiSH, the reaction changed to, 'Actually, hearing you explain it again, it sounds like fun.' OTOTOY kept publishing stories about us in the early days of BiSH, even if it was with this theme of, 'Can the rehash surpass the original?' I do think now we have achieved that, haven't we?" (Watanabe)
Iida's recollection of events is as follows.
"I got a phone call from Watanabe, saying, 'I'm going to make a second BiS,' and I think I said, 'Nice. Should be awesome!' I support Watanabe in what he wanted to do then and now, but there really wasn't room to share my opinion on anything. If you reread the articles from that time, they're written with this feeling of good days are coming again, that it made us feel young again. I think I showed enthusiasm appropriate for Watanabe's proposals (laughs).
What was he acting like? He was as he always is. He wasn't particularly excited, but not unenthusiastic, either. I was at a loss for words at his confidence when he came up with these ideas... That was my impression, anyway. I had no idea if it was going to be a success or not. I don't think you can ever know until you try, because it's not about how many people in the industry you can get on your side, it's about pulling in fans, in the end" (Iida).
Chittiii looks back on her BiSH audition
Matsukuma immediately threw himself into writing songs after that Tsubasa Records new year's party. BiSH was announced to the world on January 14, 2015. 5 members had formed the original lineup on March 10. One such member, Cent Chihiro Chittiii, describes what the auditions were like."I thought that if I jumped in there, my life could possibly change. I had gotten tired of the traditional way of life, always trying to fit into a mold, and that's when I learned of the BiSH audition.
I felt like it was all these girls who said weird things at the group interview. Watanabe and Matsukuma were both easy to understand, and it was plain to see who actually had interest in being in the group or not. I auditioned with 'Hare Hare Yukai' (Hirano Aya, Chihara Minori, Goto Yuuko/TV Anime 'The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya' ending theme). Matsukuma glared at me once I started singing, and then when I was finished, I distinctly remember Watanabe asking me to take some of my clothes off. I assumed they were testing me whether I'd do it or not" (Cent Chihiro Chittiii).
Cent Chihiro Chittiii
Her goal of changing her life quickly became reality once she passed the audition. In addition to the group's financial success, she received a sense of fulfillment from the roller coaster-like tumultuous lifestyle that she couldn't find in her previous way of life.
"There are so many things that have been difficult and so many things that have been amazing, it's hard to believe, but that in itself is exciting to me and makes me happy. We keep breaking down what's 'normal,' and so I feel like that's tied to my personal evolution. With every step I get closer to seeing who I really am at my core, and above all else, I've gotten in the habit of questioning everything. I feel like I've learned so much since I met Watanabe. Like that it's okay to not be normal, that there really isn't anything wrong with me, that I have to hold dear my relationships and humanity and love for others..." (Cent Chihiro Chittiii).
The break-up had an unbelievable effect
Although he declared that he was starting BiS one more time, BiSH's methodology differs from BiS in a myriad of ways. Gen 1 BiS started out at Tsubasa Records, but halfway in moved to Avex Entertainment as their record label (their agency was Tsubasa Plus). Of course, there are positives to take into account with the majors, but at the same time, Watanabe felt suffocated."You could download and listen to all of the songs on BiSH's album before it went on sale. It was fine if people didn't buy the CD or whatever. Then, our first visuals were of the all black eyes, and little by little we revealed everything to the public... There were so many things I wanted to do, so we were moving on them proactively" (Watanabe).
Naturally, there were also patterns that came directly from BiS, first and foremost being the sound. The music production staff was the same team as before, including Matsukuma. BiSH's music did not deviate significantly from that of BiS, so why was BiSH able to break through to the mainstream? Even though Watanabe referred to BiS as "different from Dempagumi.inc, not able to go major," what was the missing factor needed to have their big break? Watanabe prefaces his answer, "This is an extremely important point..." before getting to the heart of the matter.
"The break-up had an unbelievable effect. Japanese people just love break-ups and members leaving the group. I think it's close to this idea of liking people who are pitiful, and then in addition, there's also a sort of nostalgia factor. So when I said I was starting up BiS one more time, everyone started talking about BiS like crazy, but among them was a significant group of people who didn't go to the final concert. I call them, 'break-up fans.'
It's structurally the same as what happened with Kurt Cobain and Janis Joplin. Young people couldn't experience it in real time, so they go, 'Aw, I wish I could have seen them in shopping carts in pajamas at Club Citta''" (Watanabe).
Watanabe then goes even deeper into his relationship to the fans.
"I said that gen 1 BiS was the ultimate inner circle. In a way, that means that we didn't accept outsiders; it was extremely exclusive, like, 'Don't bother coming if you don't like BiS.' I think there were tons of people who wanted to be in BiS' inner circle but couldn't" (Watanabe).
I very much agree with this statement. BiS created a wild enthusiasm among fans, to the extent that their shows were more like that of a hardcore band, with moshing and diving, and so most idol fans kept them at arm's length when they played concerts with other groups. From an outsider's perspective, BiS was too violent.
"I think you can find it if you go back on my Twitter, but there were people at BiSH's first concert who were drinking and not watching the show and being like, 'Oh, it's like a class reunion.' I saw that and thought, 'God, don't even come!' and I tweeted something like that. I wanted to go as far as, 'I don't even want you here. We don't need you'" (Watanabe).
BiSH rose quickly and created a women-only area at their shows, and having the free downloads was likely because Watanabe wanted the group to be accessible to everyone. For this new group, he definitely didn't want it to be an inside joke. This transformation of Watanabe was a significant reason for BiSH's increased success. In order to support his employees and their families as the president and CEO of a company, it was necessary to change his way of thinking at its core. He reflects on gen 1 BiS by saying that was the most fun he ever had, but that may be because he was no longer in a position to only pursue what was fun.
What made him react that way to the researchers he once saw as friends was perhaps because of the sense of responsibility he felt as management. He might have simply just been irritated by their behavior, but it's also possible that he was in a more complicated state of mind, doing what he felt was responsible instead of giving them leeway. In either case, Watanabe Junnosuke was forced to become an adult in 2015, in the truest sense.
"I had one other thought, and that was that I wanted to repay the members a little bit more, salary-wise. I at least wanted it to be comparable to a part-time job. It's so ridiculous that in order for us to have this disbandment at Yokohama Arena, the members were crying over their livelihood, isn't it?
But that's a conversation not just limited to idols. When I was in college, I saw a big-time member of a band working part-time, and I was taken aback that even though he was so famous, he couldn't eat by music alone. I want people like that to be riding in a Benz, going to designer stores and buying a section of the store without looking at price tags (laughs). I felt strongly that I had to do something about it, because it seems like even Budokan-level artists can't afford to eat" (Watanabe).
I'd never devoted that much passion to anything in my life
Here, I asked a very predictable question: "Looking back, how would you sum up Watanabe Junnosuke in 2014?"
Watanabe Junnosuke
"I was so young... It was a turbulent year, I think. Things were so heavy until BiS' disbandment; without exaggeration, I thought back then, 'It doesn't matter if I get arrested, it doesn't matter if I die, as long as I can get the break-up live done right.' The passion I was able to harness back then is tied to what I do now, for sure. It was so hard, but I guess I had never devoted that much passion to anything in my life before.
Nah, I mean, of course I'm enjoying myself now, but I feel like 2014 was the peak of that passion for me, that 'I'd die for this' kind of feeling. But it's part of why I have these relationships with the members since creating BiSH that I need to protect, and why I have more people working with us" (Watanabe).
When he started BiSH, Watanabe keenly realized that there wasn't much of an idol scene anymore, or perhaps this was an exaggeration similar to when Johnny Rotten stated, "Rock is dead," after the break-up of the Sex Pistols. We can assume, at least, that this kind of sentiment gave him some sort of impetus to move forward: with no scene to lean on, he had no choice but to create one himself. Watanabe, with this thought in mind, started up gen 2 BiS, then GANG PARADE, then EMPiRE the following year. Then, BiSH had a bona fide breakthrough, making the prosperity of the WACK empire known to all idol fans. One could say that this new phase of success is what trickled down from the Watanabe Junnosuke of 2014.
There was a significant amount of support for BiS from people of particular taste from the time of their debut, but nowadays WACK is developing into a main player in the idol world, to the extent that other major companies are starting to follow their bold methods, like bringing fans into their audition training camps. There are also those deep in indies that grumble amongst themselves that all underground idols try to follow WACK. There can be no doubt that the independence Watanabe obtained in 2014 brought a wave of change to the scene.
It's something that holds true to all genres, but the only people who can carve a new path are the people who diverge from the industry standard. Such is Watanabe, who spit on rules of the business. With his anarchic spirit, he easily rode the line between sub-culture and mainstream culture, rock fans and idol fans. That likely is why WACK and Watanabe were forced into such an unprecedented battle, as this is the fate of those who change the course of history.
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