BPiperDude
StanVote manipulations. I've created a chart for me to help see patterns of vote manipulation in the data. I've seen a number of instances were there are definate upvote manipulations. This is were it seems for one day everyone gets out and votes for that one person. Then the next day or two days later no their votes are all gone. (See example of Momoka on the first two days) But I've also seen some moderate down vote manipulations were a person drops precipitously one or two days then rises the next day. Example Nina second to third day.
The ones this down voting happens to are mostly Nina against Nina. They 4 to 7 places and then wham they pop up the next day for no apparent reason either. This happened heavily in Nina, and Akari's case and less heavily in Ayaka, Mako's, Rima case and some others. These aren't as frequent or dramatic as the up vote campaigns but it is still interesting to see. I am aware of the up vote campaigns but since I don't really go to all the various Korean sights like DC-Inside and such I'm not sure if there is a down vote campaign or if it is a byproduct of the up vote campaigns.
It seems the heavy upvote manipulations happend in the first week of the shows with heavy upvote manipulation for Akari, (twice), riria, Momoka, and Riku. Starting in the third week things became very chaotic with some very dramatic up swings and downswings.
If you want to look at the raw numbers for day to day ranking change here is the list with ranking rising (positive number) and ranking lowering (negative numbers) To spot campaigns usually one or two days of drops that add up to say -5 volts followed by a final day were it pops up or almost all the way up and then stays there for a number of days.
| Nina | 0 | -5 | 4 | 0 | 0 | -3 | -2 | 5 | 1 | -1 | -1 | -1 | 3 | 0 | -1 | -1 | -3 | 4 | 0 | -2 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -6 | 5 | |
| Miihi | -1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 1 | 0 | -1 | -2 | 2 | -2 | -1 | 3 | -4 | 1 | -1 | 3 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | |
| Rima | -3 | 2 | 0 | 1 | -1 | 1 | 1 | -1 | -1 | 1 | 1 | -1 | -2 | 0 | -2 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | -2 | 3 | 0 | -2 | -2 | |
| Mako | -1 | 2 | 0 | -1 | 1 | 1 | -1 | -2 | 2 | -1 | 0 | 3 | -1 | -2 | 1 | -4 | 4 | -4 | 1 | -1 | 1 | -1 | 1 | -1 | 3 | 1 | |
| Ayaka | -3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | -3 | 2 | 4 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | |
| Rio | -3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | -1 | 1 | -3 | 0 | 0 | 1 | -1 | 1 | -2 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 3 | -1 | 0 | -3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 3 | |
| Maya | 0 | -1 | 1 | 0 | -2 | 2 | 2 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | -1 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 6 | 0 | -8 | 0 | 3 | -3 | 0 | 3 | 4 | |
| Yuna | -3 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 1 | -1 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 8 | -5 | -3 | 0 | 1 | 1 | -2 | 0 | 0 | 3 | -2 | |
| Mayuka | -1 | 0 | 2 | -1 | -1 | 1 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 10 | -7 | -2 | 5 | -3 | 7 | -3 | 2 | -1 | 0 | -2 | -3 | |
| Akari | 8 | -10 | 2 | 0 | 5 | -6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 7 | 0 | -2 | 1 | -7 | 3 | 4 | 1 | -4 | 1 | -1 | 1 | -6 | -1 | |
| Riku | -1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 1 | -2 | -1 | 5 | -6 | 0 | 1 | 0 | -1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | -4 | |
| Riria | -1 | 11 | -10 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | -1 | 0 | 1 | -1 | 0 | -2 | |
| Momoka | 9 | -9 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
BPiperDude
StanMust have come very late as I checked it many many hourse after the time it should have been updated. Thanks. I'll put that in.The 5/18 data came out but it was late.
BPiperDude
StanUpdatedThe 5/18 data came out but it was late.
5/15 | 5/16 | 5/17 | 5/18 | 5/19 | 5/20 | 5/21 | ||
| Ayaka | 1.43 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
| Rima | 2.43 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 5 |
| Miihi | 3.14 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 |
| Mayuka | 4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 5 | 8 |
| Mako | 5.57 | 6 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 4 | 3 |
| Nina | 6 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 11 | 6 |
| Akari | 8.29 | 7 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 12 | 13 |
| Maya | 8.71 | 11 | 8 | 11 | 8 | 11 | 8 | 4 |
| Riria | 8.86 | 9 | 9 | 8 | 7 | 9 | 9 | 11 |
| Yuna | 9 | 8 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 10 | 7 | 9 |
| Riku | 9.43 | 10 | 11 | 9 | 12 | 8 | 6 | 10 |
| Rio | 10.9 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 11 | 12 | 10 | 7 |
| Momoka | 12.9 | 13 | 13 | 13 | 13 | 13 | 13 | 12 |
BPiperDude
StanPersonally I think JYP has lost some ability to be objective in some peoples cases. It happened in season 1 were he should have given out cubes to certain people based on the "actual" performance that was given vs his feeling towards them (example Hina). This easily happens the longer the judge has been in the business of judging. He also has a very bad judging habit of seeing only the first few seconds of a show to decide how he likes the performance. This is also very common in judges and when our group trains for musical contests we have a note that we have 10 seconds to grab the attention of the judge at the very beginning. If we don't show a dramatic peformance with zero mistakes in the first few seconds we lose and the rest of the performance is meaningless. Some judges can see past that. Most though can not.
I realize people will say but he is a professional and is or should be immune to that. But before he is a professional he's human and humans screw up and are subjective creatures. These other judges I'm talking about are also professional and they do it too. I've seen two professional judges give judging the same contest give one group 1st and the other judge give them 11th out of 16 groups. Both can't be correct but both of them could have been wrong and both of them were professional judges and experts in their field. I saw one judge give a last place position to one of the greatest groups EVER while all the other judges (4) gave them first. And it turned out that the one judge that gave them last was the correct placing because they had a major major error in their performance and he was the only one that had the guts to call it out.
I realize people will say but he is a professional and is or should be immune to that. But before he is a professional he's human and humans screw up and are subjective creatures. These other judges I'm talking about are also professional and they do it too. I've seen two professional judges give judging the same contest give one group 1st and the other judge give them 11th out of 16 groups. Both can't be correct but both of them could have been wrong and both of them were professional judges and experts in their field. I saw one judge give a last place position to one of the greatest groups EVER while all the other judges (4) gave them first. And it turned out that the one judge that gave them last was the correct placing because they had a major major error in their performance and he was the only one that had the guts to call it out.
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- I'm not calling any more upsets. This isn't that type of show. If it looks like one team is OP and is going to deliver a vicious beat down then they'll do exactly that.
- Poor Yuna, JYP is disappointed with her performance as a 3 year trainee but constantly reminding her of that isn't helping her self confidence or a way to have her move beyond the mental blocks
- RIP Momoka, I hope she doesn't get eliminated but it's not looking good
My ranking for mission 2 (without seeing full versions of HS & SB)
1. Maya or Rima - Maya is really impressive as a performer, showed she could handle a difficult choreo equally as well as Mako or Rio
3. Rio - I guess the other staff didn't like her as much as JYP did
4. Mako - in group perfs helps other shine
5. Miihi - not sure why she was ranked so low
6. Riku - put in tough spot with weaker members but impressed nevertheless
7. Nina - still thought her vocals give her edge over Akari in DTNA
8. Akari - not quite as high on her as JYP
9. Ayaka - dance was actually quite clean in VVV, vocals miles to go, surely got trainer eval bonus points
10. Riria - conditioning is still an issue as she faded in DTNA
11. Mayuka - I would still put her on debut team due to the need of some personality picks
12. Yuna - unfortunately JYP has soured on her while being quite generous in S1
13. Momoka - seemingly not ready to be a trainee much less a debut member, hope the company sees enough in her to keep her as a regular trainee
- Poor Yuna, JYP is disappointed with her performance as a 3 year trainee but constantly reminding her of that isn't helping her self confidence or a way to have her move beyond the mental blocks
- RIP Momoka, I hope she doesn't get eliminated but it's not looking good
My ranking for mission 2 (without seeing full versions of HS & SB)
1. Maya or Rima - Maya is really impressive as a performer, showed she could handle a difficult choreo equally as well as Mako or Rio
3. Rio - I guess the other staff didn't like her as much as JYP did
4. Mako - in group perfs helps other shine
5. Miihi - not sure why she was ranked so low
6. Riku - put in tough spot with weaker members but impressed nevertheless
7. Nina - still thought her vocals give her edge over Akari in DTNA
8. Akari - not quite as high on her as JYP
9. Ayaka - dance was actually quite clean in VVV, vocals miles to go, surely got trainer eval bonus points
10. Riria - conditioning is still an issue as she faded in DTNA
11. Mayuka - I would still put her on debut team due to the need of some personality picks
12. Yuna - unfortunately JYP has soured on her while being quite generous in S1
13. Momoka - seemingly not ready to be a trainee much less a debut member, hope the company sees enough in her to keep her as a regular trainee
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BPiperDude
StanYES. This is what I was waiting for.
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Without full versions of the last two teams, just from the snippet. I had Rio 3rd. I thought JYP liked her the most of the trio. It's possible he did but the other staff had other opinions.
Ayaka is always going to rank higher than expected because this isn't just a singing/dancing eval. With star potential (ability to engage audience, etc) and personality/character (positive trainer evals for her efforts), she'll get a boost above those that are seemingly better on stage.
Ayaka is always going to rank higher than expected because this isn't just a singing/dancing eval. With star potential (ability to engage audience, etc) and personality/character (positive trainer evals for her efforts), she'll get a boost above those that are seemingly better on stage.
cutiepop
sub to meh plez
BPiperDude
StanFor me she isn't really showing star potential. She is showing she's pretty. She can showcase herself being pretty but I'm not feeling anything else at all. Example of others I think have greater star potential. Riku. She is very engaging and expressive both on the stage and off of it. Her personality shines forth quite a bit and you can get much more engaged in the person than Ayaka. Others I think have greater "star" power than her are Nina, Rima, Miihi (not in order). To me 99% of her star power is she seems to look like Suzi did when she was younger. While I agree that kind of person is essential in a girl group it by itself is enough for the Star Power" Now this is "my" opinion and what matters most is the majority of peoples opinion and not mine hence why I'm saying for me.
I haven't really looked at the current two performances yet as I don't like to use the non full performance versions for me to make an opinion so I haven't tried ranking anyone yet except for the first two missions. I'll do more tomorrow.
I haven't really looked at the current two performances yet as I don't like to use the non full performance versions for me to make an opinion so I haven't tried ranking anyone yet except for the first two missions. I'll do more tomorrow.
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Yeah the nature of what they're doing is very subjective and JYPE definitely has made mistakes in the past in cutting eventual successful artists. One thing to keep in mind with these rankings it's not just JYP himself but his staff. Some performances he seemed to like in his comments ended up different in the eventual rankings. His staff could have different viewpoints and we really don't know what scoring system they use. It's definitely not just singing and dancing as they had 4 criteria in season 1 of sing, dance, star potential, personality. It was re-iterated that trainer's eval on attitude had a huge factor in Mission 1 Ranking also.
People seem most concerned about Ayaka, but I could totally imagine her scoring as having low singing and dancing (although in Mission2 the dancing was pretty good) but boosted by the other criteria.
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I would agree with this if we were still in the first season or beginning of 2nd season but we are far into this show now. Ayaka has great visuals and a good hard-working mindset but I don't think that should warrant her ranking higher than the other girls especially since the other girls have shown results in their hard work.
Ayaka's stage presence is just better than others to me but not amazing that's why she ranked lower in her solo stage and wasn't memorable. I think she relies on being cute in her stage presence and benefits more in a group than individually. Rio and Nina have great stage presence whether in a group or by themselves they stand out and own their stage and don't rely on a concept. Rio and Nina have big weaknesses like Ayaka but they showed improvements in their group performance. They have a good personality as well, I've seen so many funny memes of Rio.
I think at this point Ayaka just has a bias because of her visuals and JYP/Staff really like her. She is not showing any improvement in singing her weakest and arguably the worst singer on the show. Her performance wasn’t any better or worse than her solo performance for me and she should have been ranked lower than Ririra tbh.
Ayaka's stage presence is just better than others to me but not amazing that's why she ranked lower in her solo stage and wasn't memorable. I think she relies on being cute in her stage presence and benefits more in a group than individually. Rio and Nina have great stage presence whether in a group or by themselves they stand out and own their stage and don't rely on a concept. Rio and Nina have big weaknesses like Ayaka but they showed improvements in their group performance. They have a good personality as well, I've seen so many funny memes of Rio.
I think at this point Ayaka just has a bias because of her visuals and JYP/Staff really like her. She is not showing any improvement in singing her weakest and arguably the worst singer on the show. Her performance wasn’t any better or worse than her solo performance for me and she should have been ranked lower than Ririra tbh.
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I don't think it's even arguable she is the worst singer. The question is can she reach the bare minimum threshold at the end of 6 months.
I don't agree she hasn't improved though. Her dance movements were closer to IOI's than the other performers of DTNA/Heartshaker were to Twice's performances. The dancing aspect I can understand why the JYP/staff would give her a better grade. Like it or not, trainer's attitude evals will be important as they are for every JYPE trainee. They don't stop becoming important the further along they get in their training. If you watch the BTS, the trainers seem perpetually frustrated with a lot of the contestants questioning if they had practiced between their group lessons. That's going to have an impact on what score they eventually get.
I don't agree she hasn't improved though. Her dance movements were closer to IOI's than the other performers of DTNA/Heartshaker were to Twice's performances. The dancing aspect I can understand why the JYP/staff would give her a better grade. Like it or not, trainer's attitude evals will be important as they are for every JYPE trainee. They don't stop becoming important the further along they get in their training. If you watch the BTS, the trainers seem perpetually frustrated with a lot of the contestants questioning if they had practiced between their group lessons. That's going to have an impact on what score they eventually get.
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Veryx3 choreo was not as hard as DTNA so her dancing coming off better than them is not surprising and I don’t necessarily see improvement since she was not bad in dancing to begin with and there is no need for me to mention Heartshaker team since they didn’t show improvement in dancing and singing and their ranking resulted from that. Ayaka’s weakness is her singing and there was no improvement whereas Rio and Nina’s weakness was improved upon in the group performance yet their ranking didn’t go up which makes no sense is my point. Ayaka did not do anything different or better than her last performance yet she goes up in ranking though Nina and Rio did much better than their last performance yet went down in ranking. Ayaka has star power and personality but she shouldn’t go up in ranking from that alone when she’s had that from the beginning.
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i thought rio should have been closer ranked with her teammates and nina just ahead of ayaka. the overall ranking is subject to how everyone else performs. theoretically one person can improve from their previous perf but still slide if everyone above them and someone(s) below them perform better.
i don't agree with the assessment that ayaka's dancing was ok. she was bad during S1. jyp flat out stopped her so she wouldn't embarrass herself. her movement lacked any sort of power at all. that's the difference between back then and what she did in VVV. it is easier than DTNA but seaside fairies didn't execute the full DTNA choreo either. they have to perform what they were given and ayaka danced VVV better than many members did DTNA imo.
i have no idea what scoring system JYPE uses. maybe they get a letter grade in sing, dance, star, personality (attitude) and come up with an aggregate. it would be interesting to know.
i don't agree with the assessment that ayaka's dancing was ok. she was bad during S1. jyp flat out stopped her so she wouldn't embarrass herself. her movement lacked any sort of power at all. that's the difference between back then and what she did in VVV. it is easier than DTNA but seaside fairies didn't execute the full DTNA choreo either. they have to perform what they were given and ayaka danced VVV better than many members did DTNA imo.
i have no idea what scoring system JYPE uses. maybe they get a letter grade in sing, dance, star, personality (attitude) and come up with an aggregate. it would be interesting to know.
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BPiperDude
StanYes they saved his posterier in Twices case when he removed Momo in SIXTEEN. That was probably one of the worst decisions I've seen as there was no one to replace her. Removing her left only Chaeryeong and Natty as main dancer candidates who were both way way too young to be effective. I mean Chaeryeong debuted 4 years later and she was the second youngest of even her group and she was older than Natty.
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200521 Sukkiri!! Eng Sub
S
Some
GuestI got so excited thinking today is friday and i couldn't wait till tomorrow so i ended up watching nizikake + Sukkiri!! and these are my opinions so far i'll still watch tomorrow to have a better idea :
Heartmaker .
Riku: she was shinning & perfect very good job
Yuna: i can tell she tried but she was still not there something was missing i don't know what
Momoka: if this group was more than 3 i wouldn't know she's included
Mr. oldest unnie: i was so happy watching it it was so fun to watch everyone did great i'm glad rio got praised .
individual ranking : i agree with some of it & i dont agree with some it makes sense but dosent make sense for me
1-maya
2-rima
3-mako
4-riku
5-akari
6-mihii
7-ayaka
8-rio
9-nina
10-riria
11-mayuka
12-yuna
13-momoka
personally i would rank them like this :
1-riku
2-akari
3-mako
4-maya
5-Rio
6-nina
7-rima
8-mihii
9-ayaka
10-mayuka
11-riria
12-yuna
13-momoka
Riku: she was shinning & perfect very good job
Yuna: i can tell she tried but she was still not there something was missing i don't know what
Momoka: if this group was more than 3 i wouldn't know she's included
Mr. oldest unnie: i was so happy watching it it was so fun to watch everyone did great i'm glad rio got praised .
individual ranking : i agree with some of it & i dont agree with some it makes sense but dosent make sense for me
1-maya
2-rima
3-mako
4-riku
5-akari
6-mihii
7-ayaka
8-rio
9-nina
10-riria
11-mayuka
12-yuna
13-momoka
personally i would rank them like this :
1-riku
2-akari
3-mako
4-maya
5-Rio
6-nina
7-rima
8-mihii
9-ayaka
10-mayuka
11-riria
12-yuna
13-momoka
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This is the most realistic line up the only thing is I'm not certain on is Akari. It's definitely between her and Mayuka fighting for the 9th spot and they both have a Cube now. Though Akari has an edge because she really had a great showing and was able to rank high where Mayuka hasn't had that yet.