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That's the issue with the balancing act JYPE has to perform. They are targeting i fans more these days and the company struggles to find a common ground between what international fans like and Korean.Pftt.. Not shy, not me (Itzy!) is a bop.. what the hell are you guys talking about...
Twice spotify is increasing ever since Fancy.. Pre-fancy, it was only japan which hard-carried the streaming.. Since then, all the other SEA countries spotify stream increased a lot.. MM might be a disappointment to a lot of us but I think that it was still able to secure the momentum of the group in intl scene.. Increasing the album sales on next cb wont be a problem at all, me thinks~
TWICE - Spotify Chart History
A website that collects and analyzes music data from around the world. All of the charts, sales and streams, constantly updated.kworb.net
but look at RV, spent 6-7 years targeting Korea and only now after years and years have they just passed 200k sales, while Wannabe was a fairly big international hit for Itzy and not even 2 years old and about to pass 200k sales with only their 3rd EP. This will certainly indicate they could soon out tour RV and Mamamoo too....so which is truly the 'flop' song if it's actually doing more for your career than other groups 'hits'.
Twice Spotify is going up and they even got brand deal in SEA with Bench/ and gonna be on a pretty big show in Indonesia soon and that's largely thanks to songs that 'flopped' like Feel Special and More & More...I mean we all love DTNA and YoY but if we ask ourselves, outside of Korea what did those songs do long term for Twice? The answer is very little.
It's songs like FS and Fancy that moved the needle in 2019.
trace
NuguI would say that touring outside JP and SK helped a lot. Even when Itzy's previous tour was a just a showcase, the effect in their spotify streaming with Wannabe is on already on par with Twice's MM. So no matter how MM flopped, as long as Twice started touring then the increase in fanbase and thus album sales will be easily secured.
Too bad though that Ms. Rona happened, still happening and will continue to happen until end of 2021. JYPE better do their job properly coz they cant rely on tours for the next 1yr or so...
Wannabe:
ITZY - WANNABE - Spotify Chart History
A website that collects and analyzes music data from around the world. All of the charts, sales and streams, constantly updated.
kworb.net
More&More:
TWICE - MORE & MORE - Spotify Chart History
A website that collects and analyzes music data from around the world. All of the charts, sales and streams, constantly updated.
kworb.net
NewUser
StanPftt.. Not shy, not me (Itzy!) is a bop.. what the hell are you guys talking about...
Twice spotify is increasing ever since Fancy.. Pre-fancy, it was only japan which hard-carried the streaming.. Since then, all the other SEA countries spotify stream increased a lot.. MM might be a disappointment to a lot of us but I think that it was still able to secure the momentum of the group in intl scene.. Increasing the album sales on next cb wont be a problem at all, me thinks~
TWICE - Spotify Chart History
A website that collects and analyzes music data from around the world. All of the charts, sales and streams, constantly updated.kworb.net
Assume this is just showing the Spotify charting on a specific day and not the peak for each country? I thought for Global it got to like 58 or something, and the streams seem pretty low? As I remember other than BTS/BP, the only other group with a higher placing on the global chart than Twice beforehand was RV with Psycho at like ~52 and M&M got close and into the 50's but couldn't beat it.
Increasing album sales will come from China/Japan/SK - there's too much evidence that the SEA just don't buy many albums, but Spotify and Youtube they're all over now. I remember checking RV's as I was surprised with how high they got and most of their streams came from the SEA, same with most kpop groups.
As a big watcher of kdramas and someone that has been hoping for Twice members to venture more I'm incredibly jealous. TV and film is still the premier medium in SK. Even elsewhere in Asia, Hotel Del Luna did wonders for IU's album sales as the drama got really popular in China.
It's a sad indictment that YG is forced to try for once and already has a song with Lady Gaga, a big hit in SK with HYLT, a song coming up with Selena Gomez, full album September, and then a leading role for one of the members in what will probably end up being a big drama.
We're probably getting another reality tv show or something in the near future
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Well YG is a smart company inspite of what idiots say. They've been a top force in the industry for what? 25 years? In that time they were smart and didn't just ride the waves of success from their older groups like JYP Entertainment does.
When their groups started to get big in China 10-12 years ago they established strong relationships with major companies like Tencent and it's paying off today, when PSY hit it big in 2012 they used that to grow connection in the industry and develop a relationship with the likes of Scooter Braun and other people at UMG and again those powerful connections are paying off today. Just look at how it's paid off.
Dua Lipa=EMI Records=UMG
Selena Gomez, Ryan Tedder, Lady Gaga =Interscope=UMG
Tommy Brown(Ari producer) Champagne Therapy=UMG
So we those connections built in the past feeding the growth of new artist allowing them to more easily get spots in shows in China or Korea and land major collabs with essentially label mates.
What legacy is left over in JYPE? What previous acts have actually benefited Twice's career? Nothing...nothing at all. It's just building from the ground up every time with JYP. I mean why aren't Twice members landing gigs in Japan like Lisa is in China? Why aren't Twice playing at big Japanese festivals or collaborating with big acts in Japan? Singing major OST's in Japan and Korea?
Working with artist in Republic?
No connections, history or vision from JYP Entertainment is the reality.
trace
NuguThe site also shows the actual number of streams per week, not just the chart position or peak streams. Here is the RV's psycho spotify performance:
Red Velvet - Psycho - Spotify Chart History
A website that collects and analyzes music data from around the world. All of the charts, sales and streams, constantly updated.
kworb.net
wow those 27M streams coming from indonesia... If I am not mistaken, RV visited Indonesia for a fansign last year Sept. This was after Umpah umpah release and then Pyscho happened. Prior to this, Itzy has even better streams than RV. Hopefully Twice's upcoming event in Indonesia will bring in more sales to the group.
Others here might think that Twice's growth are already on stagnant after MM, but data says otherwise. I believe there's so much more space for growth. Iz*one is going to disband in like 8 months so less competition in the market after that..unless SM decided to debut their new gg lol..
I think you forgot NiziU happened.
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No, I didn't. That's now connections built from TWICE, not for TWICE.The site also shows the actual number of streams per week, not just the chart position or peak streams. Here is the RV's psycho spotify performance:
Red Velvet - Psycho - Spotify Chart History
A website that collects and analyzes music data from around the world. All of the charts, sales and streams, constantly updated.kworb.net
wow those 27M streams coming from indonesia... If I am not mistaken, RV visited Indonesia for a fansign last year Sept. This was after Umpah umpah release and then Pyscho happened. Prior to this, Itzy has even better streams than RV. Hopefully Twice's upcoming event in Indonesia will bring in more sales to the group.
Others here might think that Twice's growth are already on stagnant after MM, but data says otherwise. I believe there's so much more space for growth. Iz*one is going to disband in like 8 months so less competition in the market after that..unless SM decided to debut their new gg lol..I believe they are the only one capable of dethroning Twice.
I think you forgot NiziU happened.
NiziU is benefiting from them in the same way TWICE should have been reaping the opportunities laid out by their sunbaes....the trouble was they didn't exist.
NiziU is just JYPE finally trying to build legacy but we've yet to see if that will come at the expense of his current groups. Just look at NiziU getting a debut in November while the sole activity TWICE have coming up in Japan is a cash grab compilation album no one wants that already pissed off J Once with it's announcement but sent them into overdrive with the bullshit 5 seconds fan event.
We already potentially seeing a complete lack of effort from JYPE...imagine what could happen if NiziU hit it bigger in Japan. The cash cow that is J Once will be bled dry as they slowly diminish over the next 1 or 2.
NewUser
StanI don't disagree with any of that - there was a reason JYPE were losing relevance and their place in the big three before Twice came along.
They literally had g.o.d., arguably the biggest 1st gen bg (definitely the biggest with the gp), Rain the biggest soloist of the 1st gen, Wonder Girls the biggest GG of the second gen early on until they ruined them, 2PM who at one point were the most popular bg in SK, Miss A who were digitally very successful same with 2AM, and still ended up where they were in 2014/2015. And considering Twice weren't quick out the blocks because of the lacking relevance with the brand, what a state they could have been in if Cheer Up then TT hadn't happened.
I mentioned before, but for longevity Twice got dealt the short straw by being in JYPE. The company does not now how to maintain relevance and popularity. As soon as Twice's momentum from Cheer Up/TT ran out in SK, which was papering over cracks, their mistakes are just becoming more and more evident now.
The site also shows the actual number of streams per week, not just the chart position or peak streams. Here is the RV's psycho spotify performance:
Red Velvet - Psycho - Spotify Chart History
A website that collects and analyzes music data from around the world. All of the charts, sales and streams, constantly updated.kworb.net
wow those 27M streams coming from indonesia... If I am not mistaken, RV visited Indonesia for a fansign last year Sept. This was after Umpah umpah release and then Pyscho happened. Prior to this, Itzy has even better streams than RV. Hopefully Twice's upcoming event in Indonesia will bring in more sales to the group.
Others here might think that Twice's growth are already on stagnant after MM, but data says otherwise. I believe there's so much more space for growth. Iz*one is going to disband in like 8 months so less competition in the market after that..unless SM decided to debut their new gg lol..I believe they are the only one capable of dethroning Twice.
Indonesia is an interesting one as it's also the country with the most Twice antis - just the other day some small news channel ran a report on Jeongyeon lipsyncing...it's a Twice anti paradise.
I mentioned previously but Spotify growth is inevitable. SEA becoming more connected, kpop becoming more popular worldwide.
It's the base monthly listeners that they struggle to keep at a high amount. More people check out the release as Twice/kpop is more popular but people aren't really sticking around. So numbers get front-loaded. I remember seeing that M&M a few weeks back had fallen into line with Feel Special's Spotify streams (think I posted it on this thread). The youtube views also got a quick start but I don't know how much they're increasing now. They haven't in the top 15 daily count for a bit.
There's definitely growth to be had - JYPE just won't be able to dig into it for me.
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The YT views are around mid 600k off and on. Not sure how that stacks up against Fancy or Feel Special at this point tho.
I think Twice had a bit of relief in 2018 domestically tho. What is Love? was a pretty good sized hit and than we obvi had DTNA which was one of the biggest hits of the year and longest charting idol songs ever. Plus we also had Yes or Yes that was a lot bigger overall than Wil?
I think following 2018 Twice were coming for a dominant year in 2019 and Fancy was a pretty decent start. Did pretty well in korea and was Twice biggest international hit since TT.....but after that it kind of fell apart. Feel Special was so weak it left Twice in a terrible position coming into 2020 and JYPE decided for no real reason to waste 6 months of the year without any new music.....now that's put Twice in a weakened position in Japan, Korea and even somewhat internationally.
NewUser
Stan2018 was a good year. YoY was definitely bigger than WiL. I think it was nearing 800m+ digital points last time I had looked and I'm pretty confident it'll get the 2.5m download cert in the next month or two. Also is still Twice's only song to get above 900k UL's. DTNA is Twice's 3rd biggest song in SK and one of the biggest of the 3rd gen now tbh.
I don't think there's many numbers that show how much FS flattened Twice compared to this one from this thread. To go from averaging 9 weeks in the top 10 to not even having one week. There were definitely some extraneous variables at play there as idol songs had been struggling all summer and then AKMU released the day after but still. In the back of my mind before Feel Special, Twice were still digitally at a level where that shouldn't have impacted them. Their was no argument for them not being the best digital group of the gen before Feel Special dropped, one of the best in SK, which is why they are only behind IU in 2.5m download certs. Feel Special was also not as popular as Fancy internationally either to make up that shortfall.
To then build up the hype for M&M, get back up to 700k UL's first day as people were interested after so long out, only to disappoint again. The next song needs to be a hit or it's just downwards if other groups consistently start doing better than them, the industry is too fast moving for any other outcome. They obviously do nothing outside of music as well so once that group relevance goes I don't know how solo stuff will go down.
Dreamer95
StanI think it is not too early to say JYP has another flop incoming. And Naive again, yikes.
colorpop
StanTWICE definitely benefited at least from public opinion on JYPE ggs - koreans waited for them and were ready for a hit. JYPE obviously had some legacy to build TWICE hype upon.
As for Spotify growth it can be easily mistaken with a common trend. Not a big deal to get bigger when everyone is getting bigger, and sometimes, at much higher pace. Same for youtube - TWICE is just seems to be stagnant there, while competitors are growing.
And finally, TWICE's chances for a big hit I think are pretty high still. I mean, in the and of the day, JYPE should have a decent song in their pocket. Their title track choices since 2019 across all JYPE roster (from SK to NiziU) were mainly bad, it makes you think they should have some great stuff kept for the future. Time to show it!
And yeah, NAIVE guys definitely have something to prove now lmao.
As for Spotify growth it can be easily mistaken with a common trend. Not a big deal to get bigger when everyone is getting bigger, and sometimes, at much higher pace. Same for youtube - TWICE is just seems to be stagnant there, while competitors are growing.
And finally, TWICE's chances for a big hit I think are pretty high still. I mean, in the and of the day, JYPE should have a decent song in their pocket. Their title track choices since 2019 across all JYPE roster (from SK to NiziU) were mainly bad, it makes you think they should have some great stuff kept for the future. Time to show it!
And yeah, NAIVE guys definitely have something to prove now lmao.
Dreamer95
StanAre you guys really talking about Spotify and Youtube? Everything I mock blinks for?
@NewUser sorry mate, but it seems to me blinks really got under your skin and you developed some sort of insecurity regarding Youtube and Spotify. You know they are useless but you just want them numbers to compete with them, you know all of SEA don't bring half as much as Japan yet you want Twice to expand there, just to get those numbers.
I hate JYP more than any of you but not for Spotify or Youtube. I'd be fine if he actually focused on Korea and Japan by releasing quality content. My biggest fear is losing Japan's physical market and decline in Korea. It would also be great if he could fix Twice image in China. The rest of it can go to hell, frankly. SEA or West will never compensate Korea or Japan. China is the sole reason other ggs upped their physical game. China is the only balance against Japan and Korea.
@NewUser sorry mate, but it seems to me blinks really got under your skin and you developed some sort of insecurity regarding Youtube and Spotify. You know they are useless but you just want them numbers to compete with them, you know all of SEA don't bring half as much as Japan yet you want Twice to expand there, just to get those numbers.
I hate JYP more than any of you but not for Spotify or Youtube. I'd be fine if he actually focused on Korea and Japan by releasing quality content. My biggest fear is losing Japan's physical market and decline in Korea. It would also be great if he could fix Twice image in China. The rest of it can go to hell, frankly. SEA or West will never compensate Korea or Japan. China is the sole reason other ggs upped their physical game. China is the only balance against Japan and Korea.
Dreamer95
StanCompetitors are botting the views. Anyone who thinks either BTS or BP are popular ENOUGH to beat WW records is just crazy. Popular movie trailers get that much views across all platforms. Here is the F9 performance, according to Deadline:
Those views are impossible to get the normal way.
NewUser
StanTwice had some hype but their intial charting wasn't great which would indicate it was minimal. Compare that to Miss A who had their debut when Wonder Girls were still a household name with a PAK on debut, and Itzy debuting when Twice were still the biggest GG in SK and debuting with DD, arguably the biggest GG song last year. There's a clear difference. When Twice had their debut the company's standing wasn't good.
I literally say a few posts before that album sales growth will only come from SK/Japan/Korea. I don't think Twice need to expand in the SEA, though Philippines is clearly one of their biggest support bases and as SK is not a tour friendly country, the SEA still has a part to play. There's a limit to how much GG's can grow in SK from a fandom perspective and Twice have already peaked in that sense there for me, so I don't see tours/physicals increasing there, you just need to try and maintain. So in that sense there is more tour and album sales growth to be had outside of SK than most other places for me.
SK is still the key for their relevance, longevity, any solo careers and a bulk of their physicals. So trying to not alienate the fanbase and trying to get back the GP should be the number one priority still.
But Spotify and Youtube is a barometer of success even if it's less important than the big three (physicals, digitals and touring), and really they're something that naturally come with good and popular songs. More quality in their songs and promotions like MV's will naturally lead to those numbers increasing. Even if it doesn't convert to album sales as efficiently as other metrics you're neglecting the social media aspects that bring awareness to the group and gets them opportunities. BP's and BTS's massive social media presence is why they're in demand in multiple facets, whether it be CF's, solo activities, collabs etc.
And JYPE is too risk averse - he won't want to ruin any potential future earnings in China by trying to get Twice to fix up there at this point. And lets be honest, China is already full of a lot of BP/RV/co fans that will blow up anything about Twice on Weibo/social media. C kpop fans are crazy creatures.
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trace
NuguYour insecurity is showing. We were just talking about aspects where Twice can have room for improvement. That despite some of the people commenting that they are flopping, the data shows they are not. Twice growth in Japan and SK have already plateaued. Why do you think they were only able to cross 400K just last year 2019 after years of sales at 350k? Years wherein they only focused in JP and SK? Prior to Fancy, 1/3 of album sales are from Japan. After Fancy, that decreased to 1/4 at most. Spotify and YT are just few of the metrics that we can use to just gauge the expansion of the fanbase outside the usual JP and SK. There is no way that spotify and YT are the end game metrics to being the best selling GG. I would suggest you lessen your time of association with blinks so you can still see the bigger picture here.
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Exactly this, I also think it's important to use other groups success as a benchmark somewhat, but it's important not to get lost in that and focus on them rather than your own group.
As Twice continue to grow internationally, particularly in SEA, metrics like Spotify, Youtube and SNS followers will only increase in importance for Twice. One of the reason BP, BTS get such big SNS followers, views, stream, etc is largely due to their popularity in those regions. I think signs from those areas have been immensely positive for Twice lately and the subsequent growth in 2019 and 2020 has already shown to be a massive boon to metrics beyond those mentioned above.
Touring was better in 2019 thanks to international growth and many shows in SEA had huge ticket demand and many had more seats added and sections opened up and they were the largest venues they had played in those countries too. Album sales also exploded this year and last. They also got a Bench/ endorsement which is a huge brand in the Philippines and now this big opportunity at the end of the month in Indonesia is very good for twice, I mean BTS were just on that show recently too so it's a big show in that country which can only be good for Twice.
trace
NuguThe main contribution of SEA to sales is in concert. They were just starting last year and they could have been bigger this year.
Indonesia as anti-Twice paradise only means that a large portion of kpop fans there are ready to be converted as Onces. The more you hate, the more you love~
Edit: my bad.. They did Twiceland in jakarta.
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NewUser
StanMore and More stumbled over 200m digital points last week
FS got to 390m before dropping off, I think M&M might struggle to get there. After the first weeks performance I did not think it'd struggle this much and would hold up better than FS.
Fancy got to 660m before falling off. YoY 830m.
FS got to 390m before dropping off, I think M&M might struggle to get there. After the first weeks performance I did not think it'd struggle this much and would hold up better than FS.
Fancy got to 660m before falling off. YoY 830m.
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at this rate might have same fate like FS.. but weirdly international stan love it idk why..
NewUser
StanYeah it started off so much more promising but will probably end up doing just the same, could still go either way - but that's what the hype got us I guess.
Feel Special is an odd one for me - I feel like the fanbase are so vocal in how much they like it but none of the numbers it has correlates with that being the case. It has only really done well in Japan and that seems more Nizi based.
The Gaon year end top digital and physical seller will be an interesting one this year. Twice have topped both every year since they became a thing comfortably but this year will be difficult.
Physical wise, IZ have already passed a mil I assume, with the two releases + some back-catalogue sales. They'll probably have another release before the year is up so will probably end up with like 1.5m. BP have sold 300k of HYLT, assuming the one coming also has a physical announced late maybe another 200k'ish. Then if the full album does sell 700k they'll get to like 1.2m. Twice with back-catalogue sales added must be like 650k at the moment, assume in October they sell 550k again they'll probably also be around 1.2m. Feel like IZ may take it.
Digitally, roughly so far this year in cumulative points:
Itzy: 432m
RV: 556m
BP: 335m
Twice: 494m
OMG: 649m
MMM: 396m
IZ: 475m
OMG could literally run away with it depending on how BP's August release does. I don't think Twice will end up with much of a chance in the digital unfortunately. OMG are gaining like 40m points a week due to how well Non-stop and Dolphin have done. BP are also gaining like 40m a week as the success of HYLT has meant some of their other songs have jumped back up as well. Twice are just under 15m a week
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