The Gay and Queer in Kpop Thread

[mimenet]

Who do you think may be queer in kpop? Who pings you?

What in kpop draws influence from queer culture? Who in the industry seems to support LGBT+?

What kpop moments or idols were formative to your own queer experience?


v Use spoiler tags below to quickly find celebrities that have been discussed in the thread already! v

Spoiler: Male Singers

2AM Jo Kwon: 1 2
AB6IX Daehwi: 1
B1A4 Jinyoung: 1
BTS RM: 1
Enhypen Sunoo: 1
Evnne Jeonghyeon: 1
Evnne Seungeon: 1
From20: 1
Got7 Jackson: 1
Got7 Jinyoung: 1
Hello Gloom: 1
Infinite Sungjong: 1
Melomance Kim Minseok: 1
Monsta X Minhyuk: 1
NCT Doyoung: 1
NCT Johnny: 1 2
NCT Jungwoo: 1 2
NCT Ten: 1 2 3 4
NCT Yangyang: 1
NU'EST Baekho: 1 2 3
NU'EST Minhyun: 1 2
NU'EST Ren: 1 2 3 4 5
One Pact Jay: 1 2 3
One Pact Seongmin: 1
One Pact Yedam: 1
P1Harmony Keeho: 1
Seventeen Hoshi: 1
Seventeen Jun: 1
Seventeen The8: 1
Seventeen S.Coups: 1
Seventeen Seungkwan: 1
Seventeen Wonwoo: 1
SHINee Key: 1
Stray Kids Changbin: 1
Stray Kids Felix: 1
Stray Kids Han: 1 2 3
Stray Kids Lee Know: 1 2
Super Junior Leeteuk: 1 2
The Boyz Jacob: 1
The Boyz Kevin: 1 2 3
The Boyz New: 1
TO1 Woongki: 1 2
Treasure Mashiho: 1
TXT Beomgyu: 1
TXT Kai: 1
TXT Soobin: 1
TXT Yeonjun: 1
ZE:A Hyungsik: 1 2
ZE:A Siwan: 1 2 3
ZeroBaseOne Hanbin: 1 2 3
ZeroBaseOne Zhang Hao: 1 2
ZeroBaseOne Jiwoong: 1
ZeroBaseOne Taerae: 1

Spoiler: Female Singers

Apink Chorong: 1
Bibi: 1 2
f(x) Amber: 1
Gfriend Umji: 1
Mamamoo Solar: 1 2 3
Mamamoo Wheein: 1
Le Sserafim Kazuha: 1
Le Sserafim Sakura: 1
Le Sserafim Yunjin: 1
Loona Yves: 1 2
Red Velvet Irene: 1 2
Red Velvet Seulgi: 1 2
Red Velvet Wendy: 1 2
Red Velvet Yeri: 1
TripleS Yooyeon: 1
Weki Meki Yoojung: 1
Wonder Girls Sunmi: 1

Spoiler: Actors and Celebs

Ahn Jaehyun: 1
Byeon Wooseok: 1 2
Gong Yoo: 1 2
Jin Hoeun: 1
Jung Woosung: 1
Kim Dowan: 1
Kim Kwon: 1 2
Koo Kyohwan: 1
Lee Dongwook: 1 2
Lee Jehoon: 1 2
Lee Jungjae: 1 2
Lee Soohyuk: 1
Lee Yikyung: 1
Nam Yoonsu: 1
Noh Sanghyun: 1
Seo Inguk: 1
Son Sukku: 1
Woo Dohwan: 1
Woo Jae: 1

Spoiler: Non-Korean Celebs

BNK48 Music: 1
Fujii Kaze: 1
One Ok Rock Taka: 1
SNH48 Lu Xinyi: 1
SNH48 Shen Xiaoai: 1

v Support queer artists and works in Korea! v

Spoiler: Queer Artists and Celebrities

Aquinas - gay rapper
Choi Hanbit - transwoman singer, model
Dabit - gay singer
Eo-ddae - Queer dance group
Harisu - transwoman singer, actor, personality
Holland - gay singer
Hong Seokcheon - gay tv personality
Jiae - bisexual singer
Kwon Dowoon - gay singer
Lionesses - gay music group
Mamam - lesbian singer
MRSHLL - gay singer
QI.X - queer music group
Som Hein - bisexual model, singer

Spoiler: Music Videos

10cm: Help
1CHU: Siren
Anda: Touch
Baby Soul: She's a Flirt
Baek Jiyoung: I Won't Love
Beenzino: How Do I Look
Brown Eyed Girls: Abracadabra, Wonder Woman
Cheetah: My Number
CS Numbers: Cry Out With My Heart
Day6: What Can I Do, I Loved You, When You Love Someone
Gfriend: Navillera
(G)I-DLE: Oh My God
Glam: Party XXO
Hello Gloom: Dancing in the Dark
Holland: Neverland, I'm Not Afraid, I'm So Afraid, nar_C, Number Boy
Homme: Still Eating Well
Huh Gak: Empty Words
Jenyer: Illusion
Jo Sungmo: Immortal Love
Kangta: Polaris
Kriesha Chu: Like Paradise
K.Will: Please Don't..., No Sad Song For My Broken Heart
Lee Hyori: Going Crazy
Loona: New, Heart Attack
Mad Clown: Love is a Dog From Hell
Mamamoo: Um Oh Ah Yeh, Good Bye
Monsta X: All In
Nell: The Day Before
N.O.M: A Guys, Nature of Man, I'm Not But, Mega Punch, Look
OnlyOneOf: Libido, Skinz, Begin, Be Free, Be Mine, Because, Beat, Beyond
Park Jungmin: Not Alone
Red Velvet: Wish Tree, Monster
Ryu Sujeong: Fallen Angel
Se So Neon: Nan Chun
Silica Gel: Neo Soul
Sistar: One More Day
Suran: Sad Pain
Sweet Boy: I Luv Her
Taemin: Guilty
Triple H: 365 Fresh, Retro Future
U: Suddenly
UV: Itaewon Freedom
V: FRI(END)S

Spoiler: Film and TV

A Distant Place - 2020 drama film
A Crimson Mark - 2004 short film
Boy Meets Boy - 2008 short film
Bungee Jumping of their Own - 2001 drama film
Butterfly: The Adult World - 2015 drama film about a gay host bar
Camellia Project - 2005 omnibus of 3 gay short films
Merry Queer - 2022 reality show about coming out
tvN Coming Out - 2008 reality tv show about coming out to family and friends
Two Weddings and a Funeral - 2012 romcom about bearding
His Man S1, S2, S3 - 2022 gay dating show

Spoiler: Content Creators

Channel Gimcheolsoo - gay youtuber
Dabit - gay vlogger
Giggle - youtube channel that often makes queer-centric content
Junseongho's - gay couple vlog
Only One - transman and bisexual vlogger
Ssalnono - transwoman vlogger
The Kimchi Queen - blog about queer culture

Spoiler: Novels

Love in the Big City - queer memoir-style fiction novel

This thread is the spiritual successor of the OneHallyu gay thread, which has been archived here, as well as it's sister thread here.

(everything discussed in this thread is speculation, we are not interested in outing, doxing, or defaming anyone)

 

[sm maid]

I've pinned the thread in case you guys want to make it a permanent thing like on OH

that being said my gaydar is truly awful unfortunately :RMplsdont:

 

[Dragon of the West]

This is a really weird post to make. Taking guesses on people's sexuality is next level parasocial and just a straight up unhealthy behaviour.

 

[heather]

The fact that this is what caused this entire forum to exist

Anyway, I've been side-eyeing Loopy. I've seen him throw smiles at Pengsoo before.

This is a really weird post to make. Taking guesses on people's sexuality is next level parasocial and just a straight up unhealthy behaviour.

While this is a valid criticism, this has always been a bit odd to me. Fans are constantly guessing aspects of every idols life (it would be nearly impossible to be a fan without some level of assumption) and yet the line is drawn here.

On OH this thread eventually developed into the LGBT+ thread but I don't think it will have the room to develop here. The judgement here is pretty strong, interest groups are kinda frowned upon and there is definitely a straight line to follow here.

The fluidity of OH doesn't exist here. In some aspects it is a good thing (i.e. the 18+ section - which somehow gathered less criticism than the "who do you think is gay" thread?)

Best of luck to the commenters, regardless.

 

[mimenet]

This is a really weird post to make. Taking guesses on people's sexuality is next level parasocial and just a straight up unhealthy behaviour.

I've always found opposition to parasocial-leaning kpop discussions very interesting because it feels like trying to ostracize peanut butter from jam. Practically every kpop group under the sun makes vast amounts of content specifically designed to foster parasocial attachment more than any other industry I can think of. Idols are paid to be performers but they're also paid to kindle parasocial stanning. Kpop would absolutely not be where it is right now and would look and function very differently if it wasn't built up into the parasocial escapist fantasy it is now (and has been for a very long time).

I can understand that everyone has their boundaries and I can understand discomfort with this alley of speculation, and it's not like I don't have my own (those "weight loss journey" videos that are thinly disguised body shaming and crash diet romanticization all over youtube and the community of people engaging with them squick me like crazy). I don't think drawing the invasiveness line at queerness really tracks with kpop, though.

It's no secret that kpop plays heavily into queer fantasy, fashion, and fanservice. If you show a westerner any kpop boy group, there's a pretty good chance they might ask "are these guys gay?" before they say anything else. Spend time in kpop spaces long enough and you'll quickly find that the genre attracts queer people easily and tends to keep them hooked into the fan cycle far longer than average. There was a time when people used to obsess over every look Jaejoong and Yunho shared with each other and Krystal had a legion of lesbian fangirls. Now people obsess over every look Zhang Hao and Hanbin share and (G)I-DLE is many lesbians' gay awakening.

Kpop presents a glittery package of fashion and glam and pop music where men wear makeup and women wear suits. Then it feeds you an endless feed of fake private messages and casual livestreams and omnipresent queerbait fanservice. To me, the industry is practically begging you to ask the question, and this tightrope walk of "are they gay or just European Korean?" has clearly proven to be such a lucrative business model that it might be the greatest common denominator between every artist in the industry.

Of course we'll just have to see if any of the other OH folks follow me here and post lol. I'm also not sure a thread like this could exist here like it does on OH, and there's been a lot of discussion over there about where we could migrate without heavy scrutiny. I doubt we'd get much friendlier reception elsewhere anyways haha

 

[Dragon of the West]

and yet the line is drawn here.

Who says that this is solely where the line is drawn? Speculating idols' relationship status and stalking them are just two other examples of how the parasocial relationships pushed by the industry and eaten up by naive fans are very pervasive behavioural patterns.

I've always found opposition to parasocial-leaning kpop discussions very interesting because it feels like trying to ostracize peanut butter from jam. Practically every kpop group under the sun makes vast amounts of content specifically designed to foster parasocial attachment more than any other industry I can think of. Idols are paid to be performers but they're also paid to kindle parasocial stanning. Kpop would absolutely not be where it is right now and would look and function very differently if it wasn't built up into the parasocial escapist fantasy it is now (and has been for a very long time).

Okay, but that doesn't mean that it's not a serious problem that continues to make several fans think of the idols as nothing but mere products that can have their privacy violated. The industry pushes it because they know fans will lap it up and it's why many widely consider companies like SM to be one of the primary reasons why sasaeng fans even exist in the first place. You wouldn't speculate the sexuality of somebody you actually know irl.

 

[mimenet]

You wouldn't speculate the sexuality of somebody you actually know irl.

This is also so interesting to me because I do do this all the time. Frankly I think the vast majority of queer people do this on the regular. Sexual minorities often have to look for hints and behaviors and even stereotypes in order to find each other. I think it's a pretty universal queer experience to meet someone new, notice them say or do something that suggests they might be like you and to then run back other instances in your head to try and figure it out, since you never know if someone might react badly by getting asked directly. I imagine this is common behavior for most non-visible minority or fringe interest groups.

It's not surprising that this extends to celebrities who present themselves as extremely parasocially available. I'll be frank and admit that I find sexuality speculation to be one of the most benignly "invasive" fan behaviors, as it never really amounts to much of anything especially in an industry where seeming possibly queer is practically in the job description. I don't think the sasaeng behavior really crosses over much at all with discussions of gay idols, and it's not like stalking and outing gay idols is a pervasive issue among kpop stans in the same way that so many sasaengs will harass idols, or people will snowball bullying rumors into career destruction, make videos picking apart the pounds an idol gains and sheds, etc. Trying to attribute queer speculation as a leading cause towards all these terrible issues feels like missing the forest for the trees.

 

[heather]

Who says that this is solely where the line is drawn? Speculating idols' relationship status and stalking them are just two other examples of how the parasocial relationships pushed by the industry and eaten up by naive fans are very pervasive behavioural patterns.

Okay, but that doesn't mean that it's not a serious problem that continues to make several fans think of the idols as nothing but mere products that can have their privacy violated. The industry pushes it because they know fans will lap it up and it's why many widely consider companies like SM to be one of the primary reasons why sasaeng fans even exist in the first place. You wouldn't speculate the sexuality of somebody you actually know irl.

I assumed that I had implied that it was odd where fans would draw the line, not that this is the only topic some fans have an issue with. Reading it back, I can see how it was read that way.

I don't want to speak over Mimenet but the logic in that second point is severely flawed.

 

[heather]

This is also so interesting to me because I do do this all the time. Frankly I think the vast majority of queer people do this on the regular. Sexual minorities often have to look for hints and behaviors and even stereotypes in order to find each other. I think it's a pretty universal queer experience to meet someone new, notice them say or do something that suggests they might be like you and to then run back other instances in your head to try and figure it out, since you never know if someone might react badly by getting asked directly. I imagine this is common behavior for most non-visible minority or fringe interest groups.

This part makes me especially sad because we know why it has to be so discreet.

I don't know where this severe discomfort comes from for certain people but it is just the kind of thing people here won't be open to.

I'm not a resident of this kind of thread (I'm not big on the topic - I like to know LESS about idols tbh) but I'll stay around for as long as y'all are game.



Edit: you plotted on me H+!

 

[Ronnie Mars]

What's more interesting to me is that both sides are offering solid arguments.

Please don't mind me. Interesting debates have always fascinated me.

 

[Sergel]

I do think an important thing to note is that in the original thread this one is in reference to, that thread had morphed in one about idols showing queer support, gay media, references to queer culture in KPOP, breaking down of some gender norms in KPOP, and intimacy in men. Honestly it ended up being much more than who someone was dating or even if they were gay. You don’t have to be queer yourself to show queer representation or support.

 

[sm maid]

not speaking for the staff team but rather as a user here, I personally think this thread is a good way to stand up against heteronormativity, because people don't seem to realize that in a lot of day to day conversations people pin idols as straight with no questions asked and no one will bat an eye, while this is also an assumption in most cases

it's also hurtful for a queer person to be constantly assumed straight, and that does happen a lot in real life also, and I'm sure it happens a lot in the idol world... feels like a lot of people just don't even want to consider the possibility that their fave might not be straight

that being said I do recognize how things can get messy and the lines can get blurred when the industry pushes their idols to do so much fanservice and yet don't let anyone be openly queer, but I still think it's better to discuss it than to brush it under the rug and pretend it isn't there

 

[Dead Inside]

not speaking for the staff team but rather as a user here, I personally think this thread is a good way to stand up against heteronormativity, because people don't seem to realize that in a lot of day to day conversations people pin idols as straight with no questions asked and no one will bat an eye, while this is also an assumption in most cases

it's also hurtful for a queer person to be constantly assumed straight, and that does happen a lot in real life also, and I'm sure it happens a lot in the idol world... feels like a lot of people just don't even want to consider the possibility that their fave might not be straight

that being said I do reacognize how things can get messy and the lines can get blurred when the industry pushes their idols to do so much fanservice and yet don't let anyone be openly queer, but I still think it's better to discuss it than to brush it under the rug and pretend it isn't there

Very well said Maid.

I am sure users can have a nice healthy debate amongst themselves in here.
I personally would like to see more openly queer idols in the industry and we shouldn’t assume a person’s sexuality right off the bat, but as mentioned earlier in the thread a lot of queer people have subtle tells due to the history of how the lgbt community has been treated in the past.

Something that can be brought to our attention as well is the fact that there also tends to be much queer baiting in this industry while also being discriminatory to those who are queer which is a problem in itself, and it’s hurtful to see especially as someone who is LGBT(B specifically).

I do encourage any and all kinds of healthy debate, as long as we all remember to respect one another while we discuss.

 

[Yeahsureiguess]

I’m here as an OH refugee and am happy you are being welcoming. Most of us from the OH thread are members of the lgbt community. I can only speak for myself, but I enjoy simply sharing idols expressing support for the community or participating in or enjoying queer culture or queer artists/entertainment. I think the speculation about specific idols is more about seeking out representation in a heteronormative space and finding idols that we can throw our support behind who are either potentially a part of the community or are allies. I can understand the sentiment against any speculation, but, at least from my perspective, it’s never about trying to “out” someone or to initiate a witch hunt, and definitely doesn’t come from a negative place. It’s about having a fun little kiki with the proverbial girls and finding idols we can identify with and support as potentially “one of us” in a very traditionally straight space.

 

[Victor Afonso]

Guys, I know everyone is in Ren's boat being gay
but this week ren gave this interview for his new film, and when asked if there was any kind of pressure for him playing a character with gay love and for him dressing as a woman he said:

"yes there was pressure, I've done musicals and all of them with queer elements, I was worried about what would happen if these images became firmly entrenched, so I was very worried, but this is work...

He says this every minute 36:50
Ps: turn on subtitles

I truly believe Ren is gay, but honestly why would anyone who is gay say they would be worried if these images became firmly entrenched?

 

[heather]

Guys, I know everyone is in Ren's boat being gay
but this week ren gave this interview for his new film, and when asked if there was any kind of pressure for him playing a character with gay love and for him dressing as a woman he said:

"yes there was pressure, I've done musicals and all of them with queer elements, I was worried about what would happen if these images became firmly entrenched, so I was very worried, but this is work...

he says this every minute 36:50

I truly believe Ren is gay, but honestly why would anyone who is gay say they would be worried if these images became firmly entrenched?

Hm... the thing is that it is still pretty rare to see a main or relevant character in media who is a part of the queer community. I can imagine that having such an image might exclude him from certain roles. Atp he is pretty strongly associated with androgynous fashion, so I can say I have a harder time imagining him as a male lead in something mainstream.

 

[Yeahsureiguess]

Guys, I know everyone is in Ren's boat being gay
but this week ren gave this interview for his new film, and when asked if there was any kind of pressure for him playing a character with gay love and for him dressing as a woman he said:

"yes there was pressure, I've done musicals and all of them with queer elements, I was worried about what would happen if these images became firmly entrenched, so I was very worried, but this is work...

He says this every minute 36:50
Ps: turn on subtitles

I truly believe Ren is gay, but honestly why would anyone who is gay say they would be worried if these images became firmly entrenched?

I believe he is just worried about being type casted in the future. Just as many gay actors are only cast as gay roles. He wants the freedom to play all different types of characters, gay, straight, whatever. He is worried that by only doing gay roles he will be limited in what he roles he can get in the future. I don’t believe it’s related to his personal sexuality.

 

[mimenet]

I'd be very willing to change the original thread title and post to anything if we think something better fits! I just titled it how I did in keeping with the H8->OH tradition. I think that sort of framing is a good hook for young queer people just figuring themselves out to "get" the thread and wind up there, but we could always just change it to 'LGBT+ in Kpop' or 'the official LGBT thread' or whatever other ideas people like.

I truly believe Ren is gay, but honestly why would anyone who is gay say they would be worried if these images became firmly entrenched?

It's definitely a type casting thing, I work in theater and act. If you are in a mainstream role that is queer, and especially if you lean into the platonic ideal of queerness in general, it can be very hard for audiences (both straight and gay) to then accept you as not queer in other major roles. It makes you less of a blank slate and will definitely make you a harder sell for your agent in future non-queer roles. I think Timothée Chalamet is the only actor to really overcome this in recent memory, but he's also uber handsome and a particularly strong actor among sought after pretty boys so I'm sure that helped. Compare this to Nick Robinson who has had considerably less leading role success post-Love Simon despite that movie being a bigger money maker, him personally getting into Forbes that year, and reaching a much wider audience.

 

[Yeahsureiguess]

Jaejun from TAN really giving it his all.

This interesting little scripted vlog-style BL series really came outta nowhere. Apparently it’s meant to be like a teaser of a full BL series that is currently filming? Love the nugu idols jumping on the BL train. He definitely did not shy away from that kiss. Bravo!

 

[Ronnie Mars]

I'd be very willing to change the original thread title and post to anything if we think something better fits! I just titled it how I did in keeping with the H8->OH tradition. I think that sort of framing is a good hook for young queer people just figuring themselves out to "get" the thread and wind up there, but we could always just change it to 'LGBT+ in Kpop' or 'the official LGBT thread' or whatever other ideas people like.

I see that you already add a disclaimer in the original post above. But if I may give a suggestion, perhaps you can rephrase the question into something along the lines of "Who in K-pop supports LGBTQIA+?"

Even so, the answers may still fall under speculations because we all know that there is still a certain stigma against LGBTQIA+ people there, so K-pop idols can't just make an official statements regarding their allyship or support.

Then again, I've seen several K-pop idols who are holding up Pride Flags during their concerts. It may not mean they support LGBTQIA+ people per se, but we can hope, right?